Strife - 2nd gen MOBA

If it can take the genre and make it better. I'll check it out! I am also biased.

I would certainly have to play it first as so far I don't see anything that sounds really new or interesting because it really all is going to depend on how they implement it. I don't think I like the idea of the gold being split nor never really having to leave the lane. Don't know, like I said, I will have to test it out and see.

Almost every top-level game design change HoN made from Dota was a bad one, except for the speed. I have no faith S2 can do this well.

This is heavily reminiscent of MMO market 3-4 years ago. You have millions of people who are perfectly happy playing the game they chose, so you come up with "next gen" (marketing term that means nothing) that falls on it's face and everybody laughs at it.

Read the article and it sounded like a terrible low-skill game :\

I agree, with Zaphid. I think the big thing that stuck with me and maybe I just have never really witnessed it in League and it could be more prevalent in Dota/HoN but was the shared gold via last hitting. They are calling that a fix to toxic behavior when it has been very rare that I have run in to someone that has done this. If people are trying to be malicious they usually just AFK or go feed , not steal creeps.

Any beta keys for us Nidhogg? I still love HoN and think the faster paced action is the way to go, but the balancing and some of the design decisions that S2 put though made me scratch my head a little for sure.

Still rooting for the company though as it's basically made up of my old WoW guildies.

sebur_sl said:

I agree, with Zaphid. I think the big thing that stuck with me and maybe I just have never really witnessed it in League and it could be more prevalent in Dota/HoN but was the shared gold via last hitting. They are calling that a fix to toxic behavior when it has been very rare that I have run in to someone that has done this. If people are trying to be malicious they usually just AFK or go feed , not steal creeps.

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In LoL before the addition of gold/5. And re-balacing of gold/exp on kills, there was an amount of bitching on KS and supports killing minions.
LoL solved this in a few ways. First, already mentioned. Assists yield so much more for the team, that crying about not getting the kill is kindof stupid. Is it "better" for the AD carry to get the kill? yes. But its SO much better for you AND the support to get the kill+assist, that taking the chance of the support getting the kill is totally worth it at all times. Masteries and gold/5 items were added which allowed supports to focus entirely on zoning and supporting, and not have to worry about gold accrual. there was also the public awareness campaign largely from the playerbase itself for "kill secure" of course as well. And that really only worked because securing the kill, and getting kill+assist was so clearly mathematically superior. Dota and HoN however really really favor the carry getting ALL of the gold.


I find it really hard to even imagine someone topping LoL.
What they did goes well beyond just the game itself. And even the game, is largely an improvement over other Moba's. Particularly now, when we have ARAM, dominion, etc. 2 years ago, when it was just summoners rift over and over... ok. yeah. Room for improvement.

The only real flaws I see left, are champs are not radically creative. I'm not really sure what masteries add to the game. And, not a fan of crit and rng in esports.

But that said, "next-gen moba"
yeah. Lols business model changed the entire industry.
LoL esport promotion changed the entire industry again.
LoL's constant tweaking of champs to create soft balancing, matched with massive selection and ability to "ban" the broken ones, creates a CONSTANTLY changing game environment, which entices replay, and viewing. Brilliant.

LoL is already Next gen. no one can re-invent those things that made LoL so successful. it already did.

You could in theory make a game that is better then LoL's actual gameplay. but it will not ever be as successful, as LoL created its own perfect storm of success with its business model, and aggressive esport campaign.

Watched my gf play it at pax... Needless to say it looked incredibly boring and a carbon copy of any other moba heh

I couldn't agree more with Caliane and don't understand the immense hatred some people have towards League.

@Needless, that doesn't surprise me at all as that is exactly what it sounds like with features they think are "next-gen" that really aren't. There is a reason they have to make another game and can't promote HoN on the level that League can. I don't have hope for this game.

sebur_sl said:

I couldn't agree more with Caliane and don't understand the immense hatred some people have towards League.

@Needless, that doesn't surprise me at all as that is exactly what it sounds like with features they think are "next-gen" that really aren't. There is a reason they have to make another game and can't promote HoN on the level that League can. I don't have hope for this game.

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Because every other game before League was esports thanks to the community first and foremost, LoL became esport thanks to Riot throwing bags of money around. The game didn't even have proper observer UI or replays (do they have them now ?). They rode the esport wave that SC2 started. They are also well known for prohibiting other games at tournaments that want official Riot support and trying to pressure major esport organizations to drop their HoN/Dota teams if they wanted to participate in S3. Personally I also believe that Dota 2 is far superior game, but to each his own. Oh and you probably shouldn't be running the biggest F2P game on the market on Adobe AIR.

What are the next gen features lol? A courier and some minor kill tweaks?

I want a moba with no carry and no support. Both of those roles are too stale. I'd rather then linearize the ADC damage so its a good sustain role, bit not so valuable it warrants a person forfeiting all their gold. Also, limit number of wards a single person can place at one time to spread the ward love around.

I used to love hon but left for league dueto how ridiculous ccarries get in hon and dota. League carries are handled better, but I stiil feel the idea behind someone forfeiting all their gold for the greater good is dumb and should be designed out.


I still want support classes, but they should need/want to build items to enhance their ability to support the team. Right now the best build in league is boots and as many wards as possible; boring gameplay!


I haven't played hon in awhile, but when I left was when tri laning was the pinnacle of gameplay. There isn't a worse argument against carries than tri lanes being viable. Not one but 3 players (the two in lane and the one solo against thr other tri lane) on a team sacrifice gold for one person to farm.

Lenaldo_sl said:

I still want support classes, but they should need/want to build items to enhance their ability to support the team. Right now the best build in league is boots and as many wards as possible; boring gameplay!

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It's a boring build, not boring gameplay. There are a number of supports that are very fun to play in lane (Zyra, Fiddlesticks, Lulu) and since supports are largely responsible for snowballing their carry in lane you can have an enormous impact on the game. I don't main support but when I do end up supporting I play the hyper aggro ones and make the enemy ADC my bitch.

it'll have nothing on

Caliane_sl said:

I find it really hard to even imagine someone topping LoL.

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You havent played Dota 2 yet have you?

My problem and most people's with LoL is it removes a lot of elements which require more mechanic skill to be great. The skill ceiling is much lower in LoL...

What does it remove besides denying, which I would argue isn't even mechanical skill as much as it is twitchy-tedium.

Denying, punishment for dying, access to heroes, courier, TP scroll, items that you activate...

Ronne_sl said:

What does it remove besides denying, which I would argue isn't even mechanical skill as much as it is twitchy-tedium.

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Denying is actually really minor element. The biggest is that you have multiple units you can control in Dota and most of the heroes don't have a role set in stone. These things give you much more flexible game which forces players to think more and is way more rewarding to play. In LoL I was happy when I hit lvl 30, when I bought new heroes, I liked winning games because it gave me more IP than losing. Actually playing the game was secondary, I felt I couldn't influence it much. In Dota I'm happy when I play well, when I execute a teamfight properly, when I don't miss any last hits.

For some reason, people equate mechanically more difficult game with less fun, because people will beat you in all these different areas and it will be horrible etc. That should never happen, otherwise your game has some pretty big problems with matchmaking. If you are against someone who is as good as you and you want to win, then you just have to up your game and you have all these little things you can work on. One at a time. The hardest game currently on the market (SC2) has 99% of the playerbase being absolutely terrible at the game and they are still having fun.