Tablets

Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

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xadion_sl said:
HP and Dell make some killer detachable keyboard surfaceesque laptops, especially the envy line that are insanely nice... I think it's the Envy x2 or split or something.

Anything running win 8 pro is a laptop class, just because it's keyboardless/optional it's a full fledged computer the RT is imo a tablet... but the lines of laptop and tablet are already blurring so...
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No idea where MS is trying to go with RT. It's a Dodo bird in progress imho. What makes the Surface Pro great is that it's a real computer that can run all desktop Windows applications. The RT is just a wannabee IPad, and is doomed to be only marginally successful (like Windows Phone) because of the lack of apps, an established iOS ecosystem, and people's existing/previous positive experience with the IPad. I think Windows Phone is great, but it fails to provide any substantial value add over iOS, and hence there is no incentive to really switch. Same with RT.
 
Lenas

Lenas

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Column_sl said:
Well for artists that new Surface Pro sucks ass.

They dumped the wacom pens for Ntrigs which are 256 levels of pressure.
It's amazing they would demo it with Photoshop, and go backwards on the stylus technology. No artist will ever use that for anything professional.
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I am in Photoshop every day and look forward to the switch. Wacom digitizers are known for having parallax, edge detection and calibration issues. I am willing to give up some pressure sensitivity to have my placement be more accurate. Besides, you have to recognize that Wacom putting their digitizer in this Surface would be competing with their own Companion line. MS probably isn't even to blame here.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

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Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
No idea where MS is trying to go with RT. It's a Dodo bird in progress imho. What makes the Surface Pro great is that it's a real computer that can run all desktop Windows applications. The RT is just a wannabee IPad, and is doomed to be only marginally successful (like Windows Phone) because of the lack of apps, an established iOS ecosystem, and people's existing/previous positive experience with the IPad. I think Windows Phone is great, but it fails to provide any substantial value add over iOS, and hence there is no incentive to really switch. Same with RT.
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Very true, I suppose it's a change in mindset of tablet = mobile OS while tablet is now more of a form factor choice as a computer.

I pushed my way into an RT tablet for the almost the same office exp as desktop vs what iOS offers. It had to be what purchasing and our VP of it deems a tablet, aka something with a mobile OS... I could have gotten a Dell venu pro for less than the surface 2 but it would have been flagged a laptop not a tablet
 
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Column_sl

shitlord
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Lenas_sl said:
I am in Photoshop every day and look forward to the switch. Wacom digitizers are known for having parallax, edge detection and calibration issues. I am willing to give up some pressure sensitivity to have my placement be more accurate. Besides, you have to recognize that Wacom putting their digitizer in this Surface would be competing with their own Companion line. MS probably isn't even to blame here.
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Uh Yeah, no..

You are going down from 2048 down to 256..

With the latest Wacom patch they have fixed edge detection, and Calibration issues only exist on tablets not on the Cintiqs. Wacom is preparing a patch next month to fix that as well.
Honestly the calibration is pretty damn accurate with the latest wintab driver.

I'm really picky about Digital inking versus Traditional, and if It passes my tests then the Surface Pro 2 is doing it's job well.

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As far as competing with their in house products, the Cintiqs are still way ahead of any tablets.
Wacom has been supplying their tech to other manufacturers for awhile now.

Like I said, no one with any experience with a Ntrig will think of doing anything on that technology. The digitizer is god awful..
It's a clear step back in technology, and one of their target's is no longer the pro artist like it was with the Pro 2.
 
CaughtCross

CaughtCross

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Anyone here have experince running steam on surface pros? It works just like a normal laptop ect? Games dont cause it to get super hot? Was thinking of a surface pro 3 when they come out.
 
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Column_sl

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O it definitely gets hot, the fan will be kicking at max as well.

I've played some pretty graphic intensive games on it, and it performs really well. Problem is obviously battery life. So you almost have to have it plugged in to play which defeats the purpose of the portability.
For the price of a pro 3 you could get an amazing gaming laptop for business travel.

So I wouldn't call the pro a gaming machine by any stretch due to the battery life, and heat.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

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CaughtCross_sl said:
Anyone here have experince running steam on surface pros? It works just like a normal laptop ect? Games dont cause it to get super hot? Was thinking of a surface pro 3 when they come out.
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See above. I got a little over 3 hours battery life on a Surface Pro 2 playing Might and Magic, which required that Steam be installed. Through about ten hours of play, I did notice one or two graphical glitches most likely due to the Intel HD video driver, but performance was surprisingly good-- no lag and the FPS was more than acceptable.
 
Attog

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Played some Diablo 3 on my Pro last night and it got so freaking hot it literally burned my legs. I wonder how that got an i7 to work with no fan on the new one, or maybe the article I read was wrong about the fan.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

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attog_sl said:
Played some Diablo 3 on my Pro last night and it got so freaking hot it literally burned my legs. I wonder how that got an i7 to work with no fan on the new one, or maybe the article I read was wrong about the fan.
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To be honest with you, fan or no fan, making an i7 work with no thermal problems in such a small tight form factor will be quite an accomplishment. Will be interesting to see just how hot it gets. I'm curious how you all even use this on your lap though. With the kickstand up it shouldn't be touching you, and if it's lying flat on your lap I can't think of a more uncomfortable position to use it in to play games-- I'd need a chiropractor to straighten my neck after each play session lol. I never even noticed heat during my testing because it was in kickstand position on my flight tray the entire time.
 
Siliconemelons

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CaughtCross_sl said:
So SC2/D3 games play no problem minus heat? I take it you can use a mouse with the surface pro?
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Bluetooth or USB (hub for more than 1, it only has 1 usb3 port) and yeah any keyboard etc...it is a computer :p the RT variants of surfaces are more picky... and wouldn't be playing SC2 anywho lol
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

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CaughtCross_sl said:
So SC2/D3 games play no problem minus heat? I take it you can use a mouse with the surface pro?
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Would recommend the MS Arc or Wedge mouse specifically made for the Surface. Uses BT so won't monopolize your USB port, and with at least the Arc mouse, it actually folds for easy storage.
 
Falstaff

Falstaff

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Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
I seriously feel that the Surface is a game changing device and am surprised it hasn't sold better. MS needs to improve their marketing for these, their commercials are gay as fuck.
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Price is why, in my opinion. Surface 3 is Apple levels of expensive.

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plus another $129 for the keyboard.

The majority of people still see it as a tablet and not a laptop replacement, so if anything Microsoft needs to do a better job if distinguishing that.
 
Amzin

Amzin

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I've been following the Pro 3 news and so far it sounds like the new Ntrig is going to be equal to Wacom in most ways, better in some, more limited in others, but initial reactions are super positive so far. Additionally MS is going to be throwing software support at it which Ntrig has historically lacked.

Also just saw in the Neogaf thread that the i7 models will have HD-5000 graphics which is a HUGE boost in power according to people to know these things. Makes the jump from i5 to i7 way more tempting.
 
Lenas

Lenas

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15% better performance on average, some gains as low as 3%. It's better, but I don't know if I'd want to wait until August 31 for it.

First review I've seen:Microsoft Surface Pro 3 review | The Verge

Artist perspective from Gabe at PA:Penny Arcade - Surface Pro 3

I have to admit I was nervous when I heard about the new N-trig digitizer. The ability to use my Wacom Bamboo Feel stylus rather than the pen that came with the Surface Pro 2 was really nice. The new Surface pen is solid though and much nicer than the old pack in pen. This one is thicker and actually reminds me a lot of the Bamboo feel.

The pressure sensitivity has been reduced from 1024 down to 256 (for reference a Wacom Cintiq has 2048) and that scared the hell out of me. Numbers are supposed to get bigger with new computers not smaller. This isn't Wacom though it's N-trig and I have to admit whatever wizardry they are using is pretty impressive. The pen is still incredibly responsive with very little drawing lag and I still feel like I'm getting nice smooth lines.

I can still make my little wispy line and draw them out into nice thick curves. The lines show some jagginess when zoomed way in but it's not a deal breaker in my opinion and overall I was really impressed with the N-trig tech.Long story short if you were worried about the new tech, don't be.
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Column_sl

shitlord
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Lenas_sl said:
15% better performance on average, some gains as low as 3%. It's better, but I don't know if I'd want to wait until August 31 for it.

First review I've seen:Microsoft Surface Pro 3 review | The Verge

Artist perspective from Gabe at PA:Penny Arcade - Surface Pro 3
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Sounds like bullshit, he reps for MS now. Good reviews means they keep sending him products.
256 is some archaic shit, thats what my tablet had in 1999...

I'll wait for Rick Rodriguez's full review first. He just got one yesterday so he will put it through it's paces on a wide variety of software.
Even with that tho, I see no reason not to get a companion now over a Surface Pro 3.
 
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