There was an old comic published by NOW Comics that used this concept for one of its issue covers:
Looking back, this was the first time I ever saw a Terminator product (1987), about 3 years before I saw the movie for the first time on a TV broadcast (1990).
was reading boxofficepro and boxofficemojo about opening predictions and $38m is about the norm.
there is chance could be low $30's to near $50m
this sorta surprised me
boxofficepro "current expectations for a $70 – 90 million finish, a global total below $300 million"
opening below $40m has to be seen as a fail, and it total is under $400 would certainly seem like a death nail
honestly that seems pretty on point from my perspective. there's nothing overwhelmingly terrible about it, and there's nothing overwhelmingly great about it. it's thoroughly average, especially in today's market. the audience score is a little high, i think but we're going grade-wise, that's a B. i'd say it's closer to a C+/B-... but whatever. just talking strictly about the movie and not any outside/meta conversations... mackenzie davis was amazing, arnold was arnold, the plot was... alright... that's kind of about all there is to say about it.
was reading boxofficepro and boxofficemojo about opening predictions and $38m is about the norm.
there is chance could be low $30's to near $50m
this sorta surprised me
boxofficepro "current expectations for a $70 – 90 million finish, a global total below $300 million"
opening below $40m has to be seen as a fail, and it total is under $400 would certainly seem like a death nail
Just got back, its ok. Linda Hamilton and Arnold were awesome and the best parts. The first 5 minutes of the movie is FAN FUCKING TASTIC, if nothing else download cams or whatever and watch that its boner material for terminator fans.
The rest of the movie is basically a reskin of parts of Terminator 1 and 2 in new locations and with new characters. There is virtually no new interesting lore, background, story, or future setup here. It was done competently? I mean, how much do you reward something for taking zero risks and doing the absolute bare minimum, vs whatever crazy shit they tried to do with Genisys but failed miserably? I dunno.
There are definitely some "woke" inflection points in the movie, like it goes along like a standard action movie and then suddenly a character will talk about how women are always target just because they have a womb. uh, wat. Then back to action fights chases etc. Its not really woven into the movie, just suddenly jarring abrupt scenes about immigration - ICE comes across as nazis basically, immigrants are all shown as awesome peaceful people who just want to help everyone around them, and there is a strong focus on "women are just as powerful as men, ok" The movie was financed by China so you can see them tampering down too many crazy ideas.
The three new main characters are meh to ok. The new mexican terminator is just basically CGI, he has no personality and the CGI overshadows him hugely. The CGI version of him is amazing, probably just a slight step below the terminator from T2.
The new hero chick, who looks like a tranny, is ok she comes across as young Linda Hamilton with a dick. She may have a dick, I dunno. The chick everyone is trying to save is pretty lame and boring and can't even hold Linda Hamiltons bra.
Its disappointing that they sorta crammed in 3 chicks to make the trinity of heroes, you spend most of the movie with them and while there's nothing wrong with them, I kinda get the feeling I'm being force fed "women are heroes too" in a Captain Marvel kinda way from that aspect of the movie. If you bitch too much though you are misogynistic, so can't really win.
spoilers for the best part, the first 5 minutes, if you don't think you'll watch for a while. spoils the movie!
It shows the world like 20 years ago, Sarah and young John Conner (must be soon after T2) are chilling on a beach in Mexico and suddenly a young Arnie terminator comes out of the ocean and fucking shotguns John Conner. It was one of the terminators skynet sent and continued its mission and killed John, even though the movie canonically says T2 stopped Judgement Day. They used CGI for John, Sarah, and Arnie and it looked GREAT and it was an amazing way to start the movie.
Then the rest of the movie is basically about how in 2035 or so a new AI threat emerged, this time called Legion, but its basically the same fucking thing as skynet, still invents time travel, yadda yadda. Its bizarre how they shock you with the John is no longer the savior opening, but then completely ignore and fuck it up after that. The mexican chick is basically the new John Conner, which really means it doesn't matter who you save someone will rise up to lead the resistance.
Just got back, its ok. Linda Hamilton and Arnold were awesome and the best parts. The first 5 minutes of the movie is FAN FUCKING TASTIC, if nothing else download cams or whatever and watch that its boner material for terminator fans.
The rest of the movie is basically a reskin of parts of Terminator 1 and 2 in new locations and with new characters. There is virtually no new interesting lore, background, story, or future setup here.
it is a women led cast with a male villain. that's obviously fact. what beyond that fact are YOU drawing from it? is fate of the furious (fast and the furious 8 with charlize theron as the villain) the same kind of bad? i'm not comparing the quality of the movie, because you've already decided that terminator dark fate is terrible specifically and solely because it's an all women lead cast with a male villain. is fate of the furious equally as terrible specifically and solely because it's an all male lead cast with a female villain?
i think Passengers is probably the best example of what happens in the current world of hollywood when you get a new IP with a medium budget.
passengers was a mostly forgettable movie, despite having a lot of great potential... the problem is that when you get an incredibly likeable main star and a leading lady that has a sordid history with unclear evidence... i can guarantee that chris pratt wasn't meant to be the hero of the story. originally there was all this ourage about chris pratt getting paid way more than j-law, which didn't make sense because he had significantly more screen time. she doesn't even show up until half way through the movie. i think, originally she was meant to be the POV character. if you re-watch it there are several scenes where chris looks... vaguely sinister. i think the idea is that we, as the audience, aren't supposed to be sure whether or not he's being honest when he says that the same malfunction that woke him up is what woke her up.
here, watch this. this guy posits that it'd just be interesting if the film was reshot, but i think that's how it was originally SUPPOSED to be shot, but the studio wouldn't allow chris pratt to be a villain and forced reshoots and re-edits into what it is currently.
i think ultimately it came down to the studio being afraid to let an artist's work be what it is. there's no room for anything less than blockbusters so the producers and studios just get too involved and neuter it into sterility. people are so afraid to fail that they create a failure
While I agree that Hollywood has become an incestuous cauldron of delusion, I think risk aversion is what has killed the entertainment industry.
More and more studios are being run with an iron fist by bean-counters and analysts, so the bottom line has not only trumped but quashed most forms of independent creativity.
As stated, there are still decent independent, creative movies, but that fraction has dropped substantially in the last 10 years. So more "xxxx-IV" movies and less new names.
The video game industry is suffering the exact same fate. The large franchises just pump out iterations while indie games take a small corner. With the way video games are distributed nowadays though, the indie game developers have a slightly easier/better avenue to success than indie film developers.
Just got back, its ok. Linda Hamilton and Arnold were awesome and the best parts. The first 5 minutes of the movie is FAN FUCKING TASTIC, if nothing else download cams or whatever and watch that its boner material for terminator fans.
The rest of the movie is basically a reskin of parts of Terminator 1 and 2 in new locations and with new characters. There is virtually no new interesting lore, background, story, or future setup here. It was done competently? I mean, how much do you reward something for taking zero risks and doing the absolute bare minimum, vs whatever crazy shit they tried to do with Genisys but failed miserably? I dunno.
There are definitely some "woke" inflection points in the movie, like it goes along like a standard action movie and then suddenly a character will talk about how women are always target just because they have a womb. uh, wat. Then back to action fights chases etc. Its not really woven into the movie, just suddenly jarring abrupt scenes about immigration - ICE comes across as nazis basically, immigrants are all shown as awesome peaceful people who just want to help everyone around them, and there is a strong focus on "women are just as powerful as men, ok" The movie was financed by China so you can see them tampering down too many crazy ideas.
The three new main characters are meh to ok. The new mexican terminator is just basically CGI, he has no personality and the CGI overshadows him hugely. The CGI version of him is amazing, probably just a slight step below the terminator from T2.
The new hero chick, who looks like a tranny, is ok she comes across as young Linda Hamilton with a dick. She may have a dick, I dunno. The chick everyone is trying to save is pretty lame and boring and can't even hold Linda Hamiltons bra.
Its disappointing that they sorta crammed in 3 chicks to make the trinity of heroes, you spend most of the movie with them and while there's nothing wrong with them, I kinda get the feeling I'm being force fed "women are heroes too" in a Captain Marvel kinda way from that aspect of the movie. If you bitch too much though you are misogynistic, so can't really win.
spoilers for the best part, the first 5 minutes, if you don't think you'll watch for a while. spoils the movie!
It shows the world like 20 years ago, Sarah and young John Conner (must be soon after T2) are chilling on a beach in Mexico and suddenly a young Arnie terminator comes out of the ocean and fucking shotguns John Conner. It was one of the terminators skynet sent and continued its mission and killed John, even though the movie canonically says T2 stopped Judgement Day. They used CGI for John, Sarah, and Arnie and it looked GREAT and it was an amazing way to start the movie.
Then the rest of the movie is basically about how in 2035 or so a new AI threat emerged, this time called Legion, but its basically the same fucking thing as skynet, still invents time travel, yadda yadda. Its bizarre how they shock you with the John is no longer the savior opening, but then completely ignore and fuck it up after that. The mexican chick is basically the new Jowhich really means it doesn't matter who you save someone will rise up to lead the resistance.
They've been toying with the "John isn't required to save mankind" idea for a while. T:TSCC played the most with that idea by really hammering down the time travel mechanics (ie, multi-verse).
It is sort of like the "what if Hitler was killed as a child?" thought exercise. The "kill Hitler" thing toys with the idea that if Hitler was killed off as a kid, then WW2 and the holocaust would have never have happened. But that is a gross simplification of things. WW1 still happened and Germans were still pissed at the punishment levied upon them. Strong anti-antisemitism still existed. Someone else could have easily taken the same role in the Nazi party and taken Hitler's place. Hell, without Hitler, maybe Germany would have even won Europe (since Hitler was an egotist who ignored a lot of military advice from people who knew better, resulting in opening up the Eastern front much earlier than he should have and hamstringing German military response during D-Day).
I don't really have a problem with them killing off John or even changing Skynet. I kind of like the idea of a changing multiverse brought about by changes they do, and how no matter what they do, the future will always eventually find a way to make specific things happen anyways because the underlying things that cause those future events still exist.
They've been toying with the "John isn't required to save mankind" idea for a while. T:TSCC played the most with that idea by really hammering down the time travel mechanics (ie, multi-verse).
It is sort of like the "what if Hitler was killed as a child?" thought exercise. The "kill Hitler" thing toys with the idea that if Hitler was killed off as a kid, then WW2 and the holocaust would have never have happened. But that is a gross simplification of things. WW1 still happened and Germans were still pissed at the punishment levied upon them. Strong anti-antisemitism still existed. Someone else could have easily taken the same role in the Nazi party and taken Hitler's place. Hell, without Hitler, maybe Germany would have even won Europe (since Hitler was an egotist who ignored a lot of military advice from people who knew better, resulting in opening up the Eastern front much earlier than he should have and hamstringing German military response during D-Day).
I don't really have a problem with them killing off John or even changing Skynet. I kind of like the idea of a changing multiverse brought about by changes they do, and how no matter what they do, the future will always eventually find a way to make specific things happen anyways because the underlying things that cause those future events still exist.
with hitler, people tend to pile everything on him, and like you pointed out, he just happened to be the face of the nazi regime. it's like when that movie valkyrie came out and it portrayed the german people as organizing an assassination against hitler because he was terrible. which is absolutely correct but they cut the sentence short. the german people organized an assassination against hitler because he was terrible at winning. they were 100% behind his regime, but hitler was making stupid choices and almost single handedly lost the war.
there was also that theory floating around during T:TSCC and while salvation was filming that john conner had died ages ago and was just a propaganda figure. skynet thought john conner was incredibly important so they wanted to kill him before he rallies the troops, but in reality, it was just going to be a name out of a hat anyway. if john conner never makes it to the resistance, well, Jack Klein becomes the propaganda figure. if he dies? Sally Williams steps in. it's never about the individual, just that there's a hero to rally behind.
Aside from the whole not making a good movie part this franchise has done nothing to give people a reason to stick with it. Terminator 3 : Rise of the Machines was dumb yet watchable. It set up some things that would go nowhere with the next in the franchise - Terminator : Salvation. Nothing set up in Salvation would go anywhere with Terminator : Genysis. Genysis would set up a bunch of shit that would go nowhere with the soft reboot Dark Fate.
It sounds like this one isn't doing all that great at the box office so in a few years we can expect what, a complete reboot? We can have Rhonda Rousey play a brand new Terminator hunting down Jane Connor or whatever? Even if I go see Dark Fate and am sorta interested in seeing what happens next I'm almost certain to not get that. They'll make something entirely different. Again.
Aside from the whole not making a good movie part this franchise has done nothing to give people a reason to stick with it. Terminator 3 : Rise of the Machines was dumb yet watchable. It set up some things that would go nowhere with the next in the franchise - Terminator : Salvation. Nothing set up in Salvation would go anywhere with Terminator : Genysis. Genysis would set up a bunch of shit that would go nowhere with the soft reboot Dark Fate.
It sounds like this one isn't doing all that great at the box office so in a few years we can expect what, a complete reboot? We can have Rhonda Rousey play a brand new Terminator hunting down Jane Connor or whatever? Even if I go see Dark Fate and am sorta interested in seeing what happens next I'm almost certain to not get that. They'll make something entirely different. Again.
I mean each movie is just whatever random Terminator story they want to tell and it doesn't really need to have any relationship to previous movies. Like you said as much as T3 wasn't great it was at least a mostly coherent movie even if it didn't really followup on the previous movies all that well. It just kind of went to total shit after that. Kind of sucks too, because the first 2 movies were awesome and even after the mediocre 3rd movie, the show was pretty damn good so there was some hope for an upswing. Nope.
it all comes down to "do you have a story that you very much NEED to tell?" over "we have a marketable IP, lets print some money!". Terminator was not a marketable IP in its release, it told a story, it ended the story. there were no obvious loose ends left for a sequel. yeah the wrecked terminator was left behid, but as far as we know nobody recovered it . everyone just assumed it must have gotten scrapped by the owners of that industrial warehouse or whatever that was. the origin of Skynet was never explained. several years later. Cameron shits the bed with Abyss and he needs a comeback hit movie, so he revisits his old film Terminator which was originally a passion project of his based on a dream (by harlan ellison!) and had a huge following after it hit cable. he was able to revisit the story by finding all those loose ends and linking them together. wrecked terminator+skynet+sara connor pregnant with hero of the resistence. bam! makings of an excellent film. and he delivered because Cameron was still an excellent director at the time, it also worked because he developed the concept for the original film. thing is, he also ended it for good. all loose ends tied up.
everything else that came afterward has been desperation in trying to revive that money printing machine. nobody in charge gives a fuck about the story. they just want the money. its over, there is no more story to tell. the actors are old ass people now. young people dont care, older generation saw the story concluded back in the day. who's the audience? nobody. this movie is a flop. now apply this to other franchises and you get the same answer. studios need to come up with new ideas or ones that were new in the last decade.
the one exception i think are animated films. live action has an expiration date.
it all comes down to "do you have a story that you very much NEED to tell?" over "we have a marketable IP, lets print some money!". Terminator was not a marketable IP in its release, it told a story, it ended the story. there were no obvious loose ends left for a sequel. yeah the wrecked terminator was left behid, but as far as we know nobody recovered it . everyone just assumed it must have gotten scrapped by the owners of that industrial warehouse or whatever that was. the origin of Skynet was never explained. several years later. Cameron shits the bed with Abyss and he needs a comeback hit movie, so he revisits his old film Terminator which was originally a passion project of his based on a dream (by harlan ellison!) and had a huge following after it hit cable. he was able to revisit the story by finding all those loose ends and linking them together. wrecked terminator+skynet+sara connor pregnant with hero of the resistence. bam! makings of an excellent film. and he delivered because Cameron was still an excellent director at the time, it also worked because he developed the concept for the original film. thing is, he also ended it for good. all loose ends tied up.
everything else that came afterward has been desperation in trying to revive that money printing machine. nobody in charge gives a fuck about the story. they just want the money. its over, there is no more story to tell. the actors are old ass people now. young people dont care, older generation saw the story concluded back in the day. who's the audience? nobody. this movie is a flop. now apply this to other franchises and you get the same answer. studios need to come up with new ideas or ones that were new in the last decade.
the one exception i think are animated films. live action has an expiration date.
I was a wee boy when The Abyss came out - was it really a failure?? God I honestly always loved that movie growing up. I know we joke about it here etc.
I was a wee boy when The Abyss came out - was it really a failure?? God I honestly always loved that movie growing up. I know we joke about it here etc.
I was a wee boy when The Abyss came out - was it really a failure?? God I honestly always loved that movie growing up. I know we joke about it here etc.
The movie was the waterworld before waterworld came out. Insanely over budget, the original cut didnt make much sense, movie audiences had mixed reactions and it did poorly. The meme here is the director's cut, for whatever reason the stuff that made the movie much better and understandable was chopped out of the film, probably due to time constraints. Cameron's rep took a hit so he went back to the well. Other directors have done the same, doesnt always work, maybe not even in this case, but enough time had passed and cgi had advanced where he could do some cool shit.
