The Astronomy Thread

LachiusTZ

LachiusTZ

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iannis said:
Might not even take another war. Just a general willingness to accept risk.

War would for SURE do it. But if a little green man walked up to our rover on mars and waved at it, that would too I think. The public may or may not be aware of why there is suddenly a much higher tolerance for risk. If we find something worth the risk there are still plenty of men with more bravery than self preservation instinct who don't have to be persuaded.

Part of the problem is we know what's on the moon, now. And it ain't that much that we can't get more easily in other ways. I mean it sucks, but preservation of the species is not an argument. Preservation of your family is an argument.

Hopefully there's something valuable on mars to find.
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I've been convinced, for a while, Mars is a giant waste of time. At least until something really changes (we can put 100s of thousands on the ground, able to terraform etc)
 
Cybsled

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You don't just go from nothing to "let's make a metropolis on Mars!". America didn't start that way either...you had little settlements and those that lasted, helped pave the way for later stuff.

You need those first pioneers to help set the groundwork for something more. Biggest advantage to Mars is we know there is a decent amount of water there. It also helps pave the future way for stuff like asteroid belt mining.
 
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MusicForFish

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Cybsled said:
You don't just go from nothing to "let's make a metropolis on Mars!". America didn't start that way either...you had little settlements and those that lasted, helped pave the way for later stuff.

You need those first pioneers to help set the groundwork for something more. Biggest advantage to Mars is we know there is a decent amount of water there. It also helps pave the future way for stuff like asteroid belt mining.
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UFOs. Let's just shoot a few down and seed the solar system by 2100.
 
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Mudcrush Durtfeet

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LachiusTZ said:
I've been convinced, for a while, Mars is a giant waste of time. At least until something really changes (we can put 100s of thousands on the ground, able to terraform etc)
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You can make rocket fuel on Mars, which cannot be as easily done elsewhere (except on Earth). Mars is easier to inhabit than most or all non-Earth places in the solar system as it has better resources and a less hostile environment.
 
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LachiusTZ

LachiusTZ

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Mudcrush Durtfeet said:
You can make rocket fuel on Mars, which cannot be as easily done elsewhere (except on Earth). Mars is easier to inhabit than most or all non-Earth places in the solar system as it has better resources and a less hostile environment.
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Why do you think any of this?
 
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meStevo

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Because science. You can make methane and liquid oxygen fuel on Mars, the constraints are power and amount of water ice that's available iirc.
 
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Tripamang

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meStevo said:
Because science. You can make methane and liquid oxygen fuel on Mars, the constraints are power and amount of water ice that's available iirc.
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You can make methane on the moon too, most of the shadowed craters with water contain a decent amount of carbon dioxide ice. The moon seems more useful than mars to me simply because it's closer to earth and the gravity is low enough that doesn't take much energy to launch off the surface. You could strip mine and build some nice star ships on the moon that you could only dream of launching off the earth.
 
meStevo

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I think your wife's a bigfoot gus.
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Tripamang said:
You can make methane on the moon too, most of the shadowed craters with water contain a decent amount of carbon dioxide ice. The moon seems more useful than mars to me simply because it's closer to earth and the gravity is low enough that doesn't take much energy to launch off the surface. You could strip mine and build some nice star ships on the moon that you could only dream of launching off the earth.
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whynotboth.gif.

Really though I don't care, I just want us to keep progressing. Mars, Moon, whatever. I'm 40, I want to see as much of this future as I can.
 
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Siddar

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If we want space program to be more then a rerun of Apollo on mars then we have to begin manufacturing in space. That will put us into space permanently. Start with the heavy simple stuff like aluminum for constructing things along with fuel. That way you break the cost link from having to fly everything up through earths gravity well. You just fly the expensive hard to duplicate items from earth and join it up with all the heavy stuff you built on the moon.

Then you build honest to god space ships in the several thousands of ton class and embark on the one to two years journeys that trips to mars require.
 
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LachiusTZ

LachiusTZ

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Mudcrush Durtfeet said:
You can make rocket fuel on Mars, which cannot be as easily done elsewhere (except on Earth). Mars is easier to inhabit than most or all non-Earth places in the solar system as it has better resources and a less hostile environment.
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You can make fuel on the Moon. So thats wrong.

Mars is harder than the moon. So thats wrong.

The Moon has access to resources from Earth. So thats wrong.

Mars is a year away death trap. Every single thing I've read / listened to over the past few years that goes beyond an 8th grade understanding of it says its a fucking death trap. Your not really convincing me its reasonable.

There is no reason to skip the moon for Mars. Everything you want to do on Mars, should be done on the moon long before.

Hell, I'd wager the hair brained blimps on Venus shit is easier than fucking Mars. Not to even mention go Moon > Mining > Big Spinning Tubes prolly easier.

Its a death world. And your no astartes.
 
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Rime

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Mars is not really a logical step until we have fully pre-fabricated living spaces that will keep people from dying within months of landing... or sophisticated/robust enough robotics/drones to excavate and prepare a safe area for habitation, likely in one of the trench areas or deeper canyons.
 
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Cybsled

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Mars quite possibly had life/may still have life. That alone makes it > the moon.

Plus the Martian Navy is badass

 
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MusicForFish

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Siddar said:
If we want space program to be more then a rerun of Apollo on mars then we have to begin manufacturing in space. That will put us into space permanently. Start with the heavy simple stuff like aluminum for constructing things along with fuel. That way you break the cost link from having to fly everything up through earths gravity well. You just fly the expensive hard to duplicate items from earth and join it up with all the heavy stuff you built on the moon.

Then you build honest to god space ships in the several thousands of ton class and embark on the one to two years journeys that trips to mars require.
Click to expand...


3d Printing is the key to our future in space, currently. Once we get the resources up there, the possibilities seem endless on what we can achieve. Presettle the Moon and Mars with robot builders etc. Send in the space command afterwards.
 
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khorum

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LachiusTZ said:
You can make fuel on the Moon. So thats wrong.

Mars is harder than the moon. So thats wrong.

The Moon has access to resources from Earth. So thats wrong.

Mars is a year away death trap. Every single thing I've read / listened to over the past few years that goes beyond an 8th grade understanding of it says its a fucking death trap. Your not really convincing me its reasonable.

There is no reason to skip the moon for Mars. Everything you want to do on Mars, should be done on the moon long before.

Hell, I'd wager the hair brained blimps on Venus shit is easier than fucking Mars. Not to even mention go Moon > Mining > Big Spinning Tubes prolly easier.

Its a death world. And your no astartes.
Click to expand...

Perchlorates on Mars also makes cultivation of the soil near impossible in the near term and prohitively expensive on the long term. In fact, the perchlorate saturation in Martian soil (1,400 times higher than the maximum concentration survivable by all terrestrial agriculture) is more expensive in terms of human habitation on the long term than the immense costs of radiation shielding a habitat would require due to Mars' lack of a magnetosphere.
 
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