The Big Bad Console Thread - Sway your Station with an Xboner !

Zombie Thorne_sl

shitlord
918
1
We use a lot of MS products at work that are part of Azure. Honestly it is pretty freaking cool. I can see this type of tech making for some seriously cool open world and mmo type games. Of course it will all require an Internet connection. Seems a lot of hard core gamers don't like that idea.

I just want new experiences. I'm tired of the race for more polygons. At this point, art style seems to be the main factor for games looking good or not. The graphics tech can be done by anyone. Please give me something new and different!
 

Asherah

Silver Knight of the Realm
287
38
well... the high end gaming pc is nearly a dead market.
you have consoles on one side, and laptops/mobile on the other side.
Yeah, it is and has always been a small niche market. Personally I have never seen the point of stuffing your computer full of graphics cards when one is enough. The only reason I mentioned it is that the EA guy specifically said that the next gen consoles are at least a generation ahead of current high end gaming PCs.

Now mobile gaming. the demand is for smaller, and less power. not more powerful. Desktop growth is going to be stagnant for some time, while we'll see faster and better tablets for some time now.
Yes, both PCs and consoles have developed relatively slowly. And as you say, mobile devices have developed very fast during the same period. I sort of wonder if consoles might not be the first to be replaced for by mobile devices though. I think it would be pretty popular to be able to bring your console with you and just connect it to a TV over wireless. Shouldn't be too long before you can get smallish mobile device powerful enough for this.
 

Cor_sl

shitlord
487
0
Couple GT shows talking about the Xbone:

Bonus Round, which is a little more positive:http://www.gametrailers.com/full-epi...ess-conference
Just watched this.

My thoughts -

1 - Garnett's lost a lot of weight since I last saw him on the 1up show years back. Good on him.

2 - That chick and that guy on the right with the stupid hair are so irritating. The only people that spoke any sense were Keighley and Garnett.

3 - Keighley said that he's been told that Sony will be implementing anti-used games measures in the PS4 (around 17m30s-ish). If that's the case, I guess I'll be passing on both consoles, sadly.

Overall, this was a waste of 20 minutes. Not worth watching.
 

Szlia

Member
6,582
1,332
What does 'a generation ahead of high end gaming PC' means though? What is 'a high end gaming PC' in the context of today's video game market? Obviously it's not the most powerful PC you can build, but more something like the average PC of the top 30% of 'core' gamers. If you look at it that way, the claim might not be that outlandish. The fact you can build today a PC that is more powerful than the PS4 does not change the fact that such PC would be at the extreme right of the gaming PC bell curve with just 0.000000001% of gamers owning one.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
4,735
11
Well, that whole generation ahead crap was pure architecture spin and they weren't really talking about pure power specifically, just in how they're built with AMD's GCN 2.0 stuff. It's basically all PR fluff.

Sony might have some used game deal, but they also said that you do not have to go online at all with games if you don't want to. If they do have something, it's probably less draconian and obnoxious than that 24 hour authentication crap that MS is supposedly doing.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
14,656
10,200
Yes, both PCs and consoles have developed relatively slowly. And as you say, mobile devices have developed very fast during the same period. I sort of wonder if consoles might not be the first to be replaced for by mobile devices though. I think it would be pretty popular to be able to bring your console with you and just connect it to a TV over wireless. Shouldn't be too long before you can get smallish mobile device powerful enough for this.
There is a joke in there somewhere I think.

one of the reasons the always on nature of these new consoles is so stupid.
Back in college, my friends and I went up to Sunday river. stayed a friends lodge for a week.
Guess what we brought with us to the place with no cable, no direct TV, etc?

My parents own a lakehouse, that is used for 4 months during the summer.
It has a wii, PS3, but no cable, Direct TV etc.

One of the main draws of a console is its more portable then a PC, or the like. Doesn't need a net connection. Its a box you can hook up to any tv and play. When they stop being that, there is a real problem.
 

Northerner

N00b
921
9
Well, that's as expected really. I mean, it would be nice if the next gen consoles were not region locked but we all knew they would be most likely.

Market segmentation is too important now.
 

Asherah

Silver Knight of the Realm
287
38
What is 'a high end gaming PC' in the context of today's video game market?
I think most gamers would agree that a high end gaming PC would have at least one high end graphics card in it (or a couple of less powerful ones). The rest is probably debatable. What is a high end graphics card? Nothing outlandishly expensive, but probably a GTX680. I mean, the word "high end" kind of implies that it's a pretty small percentage of all gamers have one.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
4,735
11
Well, that's as expected really. I mean, it would be nice if the next gen consoles were not region locked but we all knew they would be most likely.

Market segmentation is too important now.
The PS3 isn't (and the PSP and PSV aren't either). The PS4 probably won't be either.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Technically they are when it comes to the store per login with having to kludge some addresses and payment to make it "region-free" for the PSN Store(s) - but that's just a technicality. (And a stupid one I'll add, but one I've seen people say defending other systems region locking)
 

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
44,887
93,838
There is a joke in there somewhere I think.

one of the reasons the always on nature of these new consoles is so stupid.
Back in college, my friends and I went up to Sunday river. stayed a friends lodge for a week.
Guess what we brought with us to the place with no cable, no direct TV, etc?

My parents own a lakehouse, that is used for 4 months during the summer.
It has a wii, PS3, but no cable, Direct TV etc.

One of the main draws of a console is its more portable then a PC, or the like. Doesn't need a net connection. Its a box you can hook up to any tv and play. When they stop being that, there is a real problem.
PCs have had form factors as small as consoles for years now, little fyi.
 

Soriak_sl

shitlord
783
0
The realities of what it costs to make high end consoles and games don't align with what gamers are willing to spend. If you think about it, it sums up the industry rather well.
If games stopped being profitable, we wouldn't have new barely-improved versions of sports games every year. I can't imagine the actual game design is all that expensive and the money rather goes to pay for licenses and marketing.

But that aside, we get a lot more buzzwords from developers and publishers (the dodging fishes was awesome) that genuinely don't add a whole lot of value. I remember Ultima 9, I believe, which had a persistent world. You could drop a gold coin somewhere and come back to it after doing a dungeon and it'd still be there. Really, who cares? When we talk about games that were fun to play, I'm pretty sure that feature never makes the cut.

Realistic graphics matter because they pull us into a world. But if a developer blows all its funds on the pretty graphics and fails to actually make the game fun, they should lose money in the process.

Szlia_sl said:
A car or a TV are objects that wear down when used. There is a huge market for used car, but for all intents and purposes, a used car is not the same product as a new car. With cultural products, especially of the digital kind, this is not the case. Unless you have a box fetish (or unusual tear and wear), a used game/DVD/CD is identical to a new game/DVD/CD.
There are plenty of used products that sell "Like New" and look exactly like that. TVs are a pretty good example, because I don't think it's very common to scratch it. Every TV I've owned looked like new on the outside when it died or I replaced it.

But I don't think it's true that games don't deteriorate. I think it's like TV Shows: DVDs are not a substitute for watching the show as it airs. There's a huge social component to gaming. Yes, I could buy Gears of War 1 today at a fraction of the original price. But it would be hard for me to get my friends to play with me. In fact, it'd probably be very hard to find anyone to play online with.

This is true to some extent with single player games. I like talking with my friends about games many of us play -- what we think about the story or a particular boss. That doesn't work if one of us gets the game 2 years after it's released. In that sense it's similar to a TV Show. It's fun to talk with your friends about the latest episodes, not so much about what had happened last season. The more people talk about it, the greater is the value of playing the game (or watching the show) to any individual gamer (watcher).

So why go with used games? They're obviously of value to people who don't talk about games with their friends. It generally doesn't matter that much if you play a game some months after it's released if you're just playing it by yourself. Moreover, the low cost makes it appealing to try and get into a franchise that you haven't gotten in from the beginning. Maybe just before the release of Gears of War 2, people bought the first part in the trilogy used to see if they'd like it. At that point, it's essentially promotional material for the sequel.

Last, but not least, used game sales are good for Microsoft. It lowers the cost of getting entertainment on the console, which makes the whole package more attractive. That, in turn, builds a customer base that can be monetized through the online system and even small in-game purchases. But more importantly, people buy used when money is tight and new when their income goes up and a $60 purchase isn't a big deal. So you can even think of used games like an equivalent to student discounts. They tie you into a product and when/if your income goes up, there's a good chance you'll buy games new. It's certainly better than if they hadn't bought the console in the first place and stuck with PC gaming or other forms of entertainment.

I really don't get why Microsoft didn't wait with this until they switched to downloadable games. Consumers are already used to not being able to resell their online products (Kindle Books vs. regular books as just one example, but also Steam or XBLA games) so that the transition would have been a lot easier. Now it's perceived as taking away a right that people had before and that's always a very, very bad idea. Never mind that the scheme, as described, just sounds awkward and ridiculous.

It'll be interesting to see what scheme Sony comes up with. If they end up not restricting the sales of used games, that could be a major advantage for them in this generation (and possibly beyond).
 

Szlia

Member
6,582
1,332
I don't think you make a good point with your TV example, because, without even going into planned obsolescence and other snafus, the importance is not that it 'look like new in the outside' but that usage brings it closer to its death.

You do make a good point with the value of novelty though. The value of novelty is much stronger with video games than with other media, not only because of the multiplayer and para-game social behaviors that you mentioned, but also because of the constant and fast evolution of the medium, the limited availability of classics and the limited demand for those classics (outside of those who already played these classics when they were new). Yet, the industry hardly integrates the value of novelty in its pricing scheme (the exceptions being budget re-releases - Playstation Best, Gold edition, etc).

It really would be interesting to have some data about new releases vs catalog for different media as far as sales or store inventory goes.
 

Wombat

Trakanon Raider
2,034
799
1 - Garnett's lost a lot of weight since I last saw him on the 1up show years back. Good on him.

2 - That chick and that guy on the right with the stupid hair are so irritating. The only people that spoke any sense were Keighley and Garnett.

3 - Keighley said that he's been told that Sony will be implementing anti-used games measures in the PS4 (around 17m30s-ish).
1) Yeah, Garnett, Chris Kohler over at Wired, and even Marcus seem like they've all lost weight / put on muscle over the last few years. Not sure if this is a sign that even the games media is turning into photogenic people only. (Long live the fat bastards at Giantbomb.com!)

2) Yeah, that's Andrea Rene, who's turned into a semi-regular over at Weekend Confirmed. She's not bad, she's just.. not good, with no real insights and no historical context. Another reason why Weekend Confirmed has dropped to "if I run out of things this week to listen to" status.

3) Again, why would EA end online codes if only one of the systems implemented a used game fee? The immediate counter-argument, of course, is that if you buy your games on day one, Steam is in some ways worse.
 

Zombie Thorne_sl

shitlord
918
1
If games stopped being profitable, we wouldn't have new barely-improved versions of sports games every year. I can't imagine the actual game design is all that expensive and the money rather goes to pay for licenses and marketing.

But that aside, we get a lot more buzzwords from developers and publishers (the dodging fishes was awesome) that genuinely don't add a whole lot of value. I remember Ultima 9, I believe, which had a persistent world. You could drop a gold coin somewhere and come back to it after doing a dungeon and it'd still be there. Really, who cares? When we talk about games that were fun to play, I'm pretty sure that feature never makes the cut.

Realistic graphics matter because they pull us into a world. But if a developer blows all its funds on the pretty graphics and fails to actually make the game fun, they should lose money in the process.


There are plenty of used products that sell "Like New" and look exactly like that. TVs are a pretty good example, because I don't think it's very common to scratch it. Every TV I've owned looked like new on the outside when it died or I replaced it.

But I don't think it's true that games don't deteriorate. I think it's like TV Shows: DVDs are not a substitute for watching the show as it airs. There's a huge social component to gaming. Yes, I could buy Gears of War 1 today at a fraction of the original price. But it would be hard for me to get my friends to play with me. In fact, it'd probably be very hard to find anyone to play online with.

This is true to some extent with single player games. I like talking with my friends about games many of us play -- what we think about the story or a particular boss. That doesn't work if one of us gets the game 2 years after it's released. In that sense it's similar to a TV Show. It's fun to talk with your friends about the latest episodes, not so much about what had happened last season. The more people talk about it, the greater is the value of playing the game (or watching the show) to any individual gamer (watcher).

So why go with used games? They're obviously of value to people who don't talk about games with their friends. It generally doesn't matter that much if you play a game some months after it's released if you're just playing it by yourself. Moreover, the low cost makes it appealing to try and get into a franchise that you haven't gotten in from the beginning. Maybe just before the release of Gears of War 2, people bought the first part in the trilogy used to see if they'd like it. At that point, it's essentially promotional material for the sequel.

Last, but not least, used game sales are good for Microsoft. It lowers the cost of getting entertainment on the console, which makes the whole package more attractive. That, in turn, builds a customer base that can be monetized through the online system and even small in-game purchases. But more importantly, people buy used when money is tight and new when their income goes up and a $60 purchase isn't a big deal. So you can even think of used games like an equivalent to student discounts. They tie you into a product and when/if your income goes up, there's a good chance you'll buy games new. It's certainly better than if they hadn't bought the console in the first place and stuck with PC gaming or other forms of entertainment.

I really don't get why Microsoft didn't wait with this until they switched to downloadable games. Consumers are already used to not being able to resell their online products (Kindle Books vs. regular books as just one example, but also Steam or XBLA games) so that the transition would have been a lot easier. Now it's perceived as taking away a right that people had before and that's always a very, very bad idea. Never mind that the scheme, as described, just sounds awkward and ridiculous.

It'll be interesting to see what scheme Sony comes up with. If they end up not restricting the sales of used games, that could be a major advantage for them in this generation (and possibly beyond).
I'm almost positive the vast majority of development budget it simply manpower. Look at the size of these teams. Lets say you average even a lowly 60k a year (x1.5 for ee taxes/insurance) for a team of 400 people for 3-5 years. That's 75%+ of your budget right there.

AAA games are simply too big.
 

Zombie Thorne_sl

shitlord
918
1
I think another problem with the used game market is just how big GameStop made it. You use TV's as an example. Imagine if Best Buy started selling used TV's, this years model for 90% of the price with the same warranty. Do you think that would fly with the manufacturers? I just think they became a target just because of how big it got. Huge corporation that made thier business model out of it.

And now it's going to suck for everyone else.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
4,735
11
http://kotaku.com/report-retailers-c...-one-509958661

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publi...A+Home+Stream)

According to "retail sources", trade publication MCV is reporting that stores will be able to sell Xbox One games for whatever price they want.

The catch? Both Microsoft and the game's publisher will get a percentage of that sale.
They seriously need to stop beating around the bush and 100% clarify this shit. Letting this fester out in the open is dumb as fuck and whoever is in charge of PR on this should be fired.
 

Zombie Thorne_sl

shitlord
918
1
Yup, this reveal is a PR clusterfuck. Given the reveal content, they should not have invited the gaming news outlets. This should have been mainstream press/tv/sports outlets. And they should have had some sort of canned response for the online/used games crap. Something as simple is "the details are still being finalized and we will have all of your answers at E3" or something... Anything would be better than the thrashing they are taking now.