The Big Bad Console Thread - Sway your Station with an Xboner !

DMK_sl said:

Just like the PS3 was a 'stronger' system? Funny how most games ran worse on the ps 3 then 360. Give me evidence that games run better on PS4 then Xbox one.. Oh you can't.

Mist it's funny how that article has absolutely zero quotes of them saying that... Real reliable source. Once again can we please start using HARD facts. Until both companies announce FACTS on these topics you have no idea and all you do is look like a fan boy/girl.

Seriously I simply can't understand how a bunch of grown ups can't simply wait for the facts. For instance Sean said something that was a fact. The truth. Something that was real. Therefore he has a REAL reason to want a PS4 that isn't based around taste/exclusives. I really don't care what console people like. What does frustrates me is when people make things up to justify one over the other. I personally just like the xbox controller and the console as a whole I simply prefer for superficial reasons. At the moment is it any better then the Ps4? No it's not. It's simply a matter of taste.

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A fair defense - when their architecture was different - with both on the SAME DAMN ARCHITECTURE that "Oh we don't know how the numbers are going to translate out in reality because devs might shortcut things" defense doesn't hold water anymore. (nevermind the fact that the architecture differences before didn't include a drastically differently powered video card, unlike this time where you're looking at something equivalent to a 7770 vs. a 7570 and saying "but we don't know, they might run similarly if the devs care")

Also a fair defense if we didn't see that already at least THREE TIMES, up to SIX TIMES by some quotes of the system's RAM is allocated to OS and bloat at all times one versus the other. (PS4 is quoted at 1GB to 1/2 GB - I assume the higher end is more accurate though personally))

Also, it could be a fair defense that "stuff will largely look the same" if they actually provided a lick of evidence of that - shifting focus away from GAMES for a GAME SYSTEM doesn't generally imply that you're going to be doing well in a 1:1 comparison in things like graphics.

And hell, everyone outside of the blind XBro contingent has known about how draconian 360 patching is for YEARS now. There's dozens of REAL reasons it's got problems right now, you've got your head in the sand like a fucking ostrich in an attempt to defend your precious XBox - PS4 certainly could have some potential failings, I'll be the first to acknowledge that - I'm not sure if I'll get one over my PC without some exciting future announcements, but there's absolutely zero logic in anything that they've done with Xbone as a game system.

If I wanted to buy a less efficient "Harmony Remote" for 2-5 times the cost - sure I might be excited - but I've had my Harmony Remotes for years now. (Hell, might even be a decade now for the first)

Do you make the same arguments for AMD being a better PC CPU? Because that's what you're basically trying to make an equivalent argument of right now.

Well truth be told, the PS4 has 50% more shading power than the Xbox One. Everything else is pretty much equal* including the X86 architecture. Therefore the PS4 is more powerful. These things are pretty much PCs and when it comes to a PC you can look at its hardware and get a very good idea of how well it will perform compared to other PCs.

* While the PS4 has faster specs on paper for its memory, the way the Xbox One's memory is architected means it will about equal performance overall.

Xalara: While true that it's not as bad as 2GB of RAM down would imply - the on chip RAM isn't going to make up for a much more bloated background it might help narrow the gap.

Xalara_sl said:

* While the PS4 has faster specs on paper for its memory, the way the Xbox One's memory is architected means it will about equal performance overall.

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Totally disagree with the Xbone's ESRAM making them equal after reading this:http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/

Vaclav_sl said:

Also, it could be a fair defense that "stuff will largely look the same" if they actually provided a lick of evidence of that - shifting focus away from GAMES for a GAME SYSTEM doesn't generally imply that you're going to be doing well in a 1:1 comparison in things like graphics.

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That's an assumption. It's also just being ignorant as they have state E3 is where they will show the gaming side of the machine. How many times has it got to be said before that sinks into peoples heads? Show me evidence that because part of the system has robust TV features that it will efffect the gaming side? There isn't any yet.

Vaclav_sl said:

And hell, everyone outside of the blind XBro contingent has known about how draconian 360 patching is for YEARS now. There's dozens of REAL reasons it's got problems right now, you've got your head in the sand like a fucking ostrich in an attempt to defend your precious XBox - PS4 certainly could have some potential failings, I'll be the first to acknowledge that - I'm not sure if I'll get one over my PC without some exciting future announcements, but there's absolutely zero logic in anything that they've done with Xbone as a game system.

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Ok just so we are clear. Read this next sentence carefully.They have stated they will be talking about the xbox ones games and gaming features at E3.

Vaclav_sl said:

If I wanted to buy a less efficient "Harmony Remote" for 2-5 times the cost - sure I might be excited - but I've had my Harmony Remotes for years now. (Hell, might even be a decade now for the first)

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Because that's all the xbox one does.. Forget the 15 exclusive titles they will be releasing or the 1billion they are investing into games a lone or the fact that they have 30 day exclusive DLC releases on two of the biggest games of last generation CoD and Skyrim just to mention a couple.

So now I'm an 'Xbro' because I ask people to WAIT for facts? I'm a fanboy because I openly admit I like xbox for purely cosmetic reasons and say both consoles are pretty much the same? I'm the fan boy because I say i don't really care what console people buy? Seriously some of you guys are borderline crazy about this stuff.

DMK_sl said:

or the fact that they have 30 day exclusive DLC releases on two of the biggest games of last generation CoD and Skyrim just to mention a couple.

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Paying big bucks to fuck over gamers on other systems is suppose to be a plus in Microsoft's favor now?

DMK going full Xbrony.

Skanda_sl said:

Paying big bucks to fuck over gamers on other systems is suppose to be a plus in Microsoft's favor now?

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Don't try to reason with an Xbonie. Gotta wait for the facts. The Kinect having to be on for the Xbone to work, an obtrusive used game policy, having to connect online at least once a day for who knows how long, weaker system specs, fucking over indie devs, a worse and yet more expensive online system, a tv system that requires 3rd party hardware and doesn't even replace the DVR, no backwards comparability, and no access to XBLA are all damn lies and slander.

And even if all of that is true it's ok because it will make COD 43 and Halo 26 even better. Plus cloud magic!

Nevermind that the Kinect is just going to be used to gather data about you that MS can sell and find new ways to gouge you. "Kinect is showing your enjoyment level for this movie is above the allowed levels, please pay $10 more to continue viewing."

DMK: Honestly, give me one good reason to DELAY SHOWING GAMING FEATURES OF A GAMING SYSTEM - something that has been a staple of Game System Announcements since they started being done.

Even if they pull off a miracle and show stuff up to PS4 quality it's going to be a pretty solid indicator of needing extra effort from development to attain the same results - because otherwise why would they delay showing anything more than a few dog pictures actually rendered by the system for months?

Nevermind also the fact that developers themselves are dogpiling on MS for it being a piece of crap (at least one of which, Gearbox, has a dev kit).

I know I'll eventually own both - I'm a sucker for exclusives - but I'm not blind to the fact that it's got some large failiings, and likely besides exclusives is going to be far behind unless it drags PS4 quality down because of devs being lazy.

Vaclav_sl said:

DMK: Honestly, give me one good reason to DELAY SHOWING GAMING FEATURES OF A GAMING SYSTEM - something that has been a staple of Game System Announcements since they started being done.

Even if they pull off a miracle and show stuff up to PS4 quality it's going to be a pretty solid indicator of needing extra effort from development to attain the same results - because otherwise why would they delay showing anything more than a few dog pictures actually rendered by the system for months?

Nevermind also the fact that developers themselves are dogpiling on MS for it being a piece of crap (at least one of which, Gearbox, has a dev kit).

I know I'll eventually own both - I'm a sucker for exclusives - but I'm not blind to the fact that it's got some large failiings, and likely besides exclusives is going to be far behind unless it drags PS4 quality down because of devs being lazy.

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I'll eventually own both as well. Also for me everything hinges on the E3 performance for microsoft. Gamers don't see the reasons why microsoft decided to show their TV features first but from a business prospective it was for the mainstream audience. Xbox is trying to expand and grow to more then just a gaming machine. Is that a good or a bad thing? Only time will tell. If xbox don't bring a good game to E3 then yeah they are definitely in an extremely bad position. My whole point from the beginning was to wait for EVERYTHING to be on the table before jumping to conclusions on which is the better console.

None of my friends are gamers. Matter of fact I barely know any 'gamers' in real life. What people are missing is the average person doesn't know it can do all this shit with a PC. Look at apple for instance they are popular because of accessibility. The average person finds Iphone easy to use and I feel that's what the Xbox is aiming to do be the Iphone of consoles. It worked for Apple it may work for Microsoft. Either way I don't really care if people say I am a fan boy because I'm clearly not. Just playstation lovers with a chip on their shoulder because the 360 caught up and is on an even footing now to Playstation. In my opinion the PS 3 wasn't a resounding success. After the domination of the PS 2 the PS3 should have completely wiped the floor with Microsoft and yet they didn't. Microsoft won the last console war in relation too their much weaker starting position. Now it is an even footing and it will be interesting too see who takes the ball and runs with it.

If that conference wasn't meant for "gamers" why did they invite the gaming press? Why did ALL of the advertising for the event that I'm aware of get published in gaming media and websites?

What you're saying would make a ton more sense if they'd grabbed a Popular Science, BusinessWeek and similar clientele for what they were pressing with the initial conference - but they didn't.

Games as well as hardware were still discussed it just wasn't the main focus point and even during the conference they said they'd be focusing more on games at E3. Also most gaming websites are tech websites aswell.

Sean_sl said:

Totally disagree with the Xbone's ESRAM making them equal after reading this:http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/

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Eh, Anandtech has a direct comparison of the PS4 and Xbox One and dedicated an entire page to comparing the memory subsystems (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/x...laystation-4/3). The conclusion was that the it was a wash between the two and that, even if the Xbox One's memory subsystem ends up being slower, it probably doesn't matter too much anyway since the video card in the Xbox One is slower. Anandtech also knows what they're talking about and is neutral.

What I find most amusing about the PS4 and Xbox One is that they're both virtually identical. One has less shader units than the other and they both have different memory setups, but otherwise they're using basically the same chips. What's going to differentiate the two is software.

This is getting a bit deep but do you think both companies have people highly placed within the opposing teams? Surely both of them would know what the other is launching to make sure they are on par with eachother or???

(not highly placed but getting payed for info?)

Xalara_sl said:

Eh, Anandtech has a direct comparison of the PS4 and Xbox One and dedicated an entire page to comparing the memory subsystems (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/x...laystation-4/3). The conclusion was that the it was a wash between the two and that, even if the Xbox One's memory subsystem ends up being slower, it probably doesn't matter too much anyway since the video card in the Xbox One is slower. Anandtech also knows what they're talking about and is neutral.

What I find most amusing about the PS4 and Xbox One is that they're both virtually identical. One has less shader units than the other and they both have different memory setups, but otherwise they're using basically the same chips. What's going to differentiate the two is software.

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That page doesn't go into Sony's custom bus design or any of the stuff that Cerny has let out at all. They're just going off raw numbers.

There's more to it than just hardware too. There's been a few remarks on how the PS4 is easier to work on and that they have much more access to the hardware while the Xbone is a lot more restricted and harder to code for. That will make a difference in performance and how much they can pull out of a machine (hello opposite of the PS3/X360).

It's also unknown on just how much of the hardware resources, besides the dedicated 3GB of RAM, that Microsoft has dedicated to them running their 3 OSes at once for Instant Snapping and they themselves stated that those resources are 100% locked down and unusable by games.

Also, 7 fucking more days:http://www.gametrailers.com/full-epi...to-win-e3-2013

Can't wait. It'll be nice to finally pre-order a PS4 on Amazon. As of now, it won't allow you to.

So let me get this straight. If you do not actively hate the Xbox and aren't sucking Sonys knob you are an xbro? Awesome!

People get too invested in this crap. Lets wait for some games and real info.

Thorne_sl said:

So let me get this straight. If you do not actively hate the Xbox and aren't sucking Sonys knob you are an xbro? Awesome!

People get too invested in this crap. Lets wait for some games and real info.

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Pretty much. Console gamers are like stock holders without the stock.