The Black Company

Void · Nov 12, 2018

Oblio said:
I finished Books 1-3 and was about to pick up 4 when I saw that this Novella called the Port of Shadows was set in between 2-3. I am now about 75% done with Port of Shadows and my first impression was to check the Author's name because I feel like it is a different writer. I feel like Croaker is a bit different person when compared to 1-3, it's just little things like phrases, humor and self reflection...they all seem a bit off. I have every intention of finishing this book, however a few times I have thought what is the point and then I remember...

That I am getting an origin story of the Lady. The best parts of this book are the Necromancer chapters. The whole Tides Elba/Mischievous Rain twins with Craoker is just nonsense, there is no way that he would have twins with a Taken and never mention it in Book 3, The whole scenario seems hamfisted.

Now with saying all that maybe I am in for a big surprise where everything will come together, make sense and be wrapped with a pretty bow. I am very hopeful that will be the case, but in the meantime it is frustrating to read the narrator (Croaker), a guy I feel like I know and yet he feels so foreign and has kids etc. Right now the best i can give this book is a 3/5 and that is being very generous and overly forgiving because of the Necro/Senjack stuff. I really really hope I come back here in a few days and say something like "oh I get it now"

I don't know that I would have recommended reading Port of Shadows in anything like the order it supposedly falls in the timeline. Particularly with 30+ years between the writing of each. Clearly, as you've pointed out, the author can and usually does change a lot over that much time, so even though to me it felt fairly similar in tone, I'm sure that it is pretty glaring when going from the first 3 to that one.

That being said, as I mentioned before, given that (for obvious reasons) this book is never referenced in any of the later books, the reason for them never mentioning it is about as good as I can think of. Plenty of other books don't even try to address why we never knew all this shit before, but at least this one tries.

Also, amusing that a 400 page book is a novella nowadays.

Oblio · Nov 13, 2018

Void said:
I don't know that I would have recommended reading Port of Shadows in anything like the order it supposedly falls in the timeline. Particularly with 30+ years between the writing of each. Clearly, as you've pointed out, the author can and usually does change a lot over that much time, so even though to me it felt fairly similar in tone, I'm sure that it is pretty glaring when going from the first 3 to that one.

That being said, as I mentioned before, given that (for obvious reasons) this book is never referenced in any of the later books, the reason for them never mentioning it is about as good as I can think of. Plenty of other books don't even try to address why we never knew all this shit before, but at least this one tries.

Also, amusing that a 400 page book is a novella nowadays.

Too funny, the next chapter started providing new info which basically explains everything. I guess I was too impatient, curious to see how it all comes together.

Hatorade · Nov 14, 2018

Ha I just read my posts from when I read it, yeah don't read that spoiler. I do stand by my initial reactions and yes it does wrap up.

Oblio · Nov 15, 2018

Yeah, so...

Maybe I need to work on my listening comprehension (yes, audio books), but I am not in love with the author fucking with reader for the sake of fucking with the reader. The Lady was named Dorotea Senjack by Silent in book 3 and lost her powers.

In this novella Dorotea was a zombie, now I understand that it is possible that the Lady tricked one of her sister's into believing that their name was Dorotea. Now Credence aka Bathdek aka Kitten seems to have actually been the lady, but why does the author lie to the reader?

While there was some good stuff in this book I can't help but feel it was a big waste of time that just muddied waters in an attempt to misdirect the reader as to what the Lady's true name is, even though we already knew it from book 3.

I get that it was probably the Lady in disguise living with Croaker for a test run for their future together because she could see the future etc. While that was kind of cool I just feel like we had a lot of fluff and misdirect to basically learn that the Lady tried the milk before buying the cow.

Void · Nov 15, 2018

Oblio said:
Yeah, so...

Maybe I need to work on my listening comprehension (yes, audio books), but I am not in love with the author fucking with reader for the sake of fucking with the reader. The Lady was named Dorotea Senjack by Silent in book 3 and lost her powers.

In this novella Dorotea was a zombie, now I understand that it is possible that the Lady tricked one of her sister's into believing that their name was Dorotea. Now Credence aka Bathdek aka Kitten seems to have actually been the lady, but why does the author lie to the reader?

While there was some good stuff in this book I can't help but feel it was a big waste of time that just muddied waters in an attempt to misdirect the reader as to what the Lady's true name is, even though we already knew it from book 3.

I get that it was probably the Lady in disguise living with Croaker for a test run for their future together because she could see the future etc. While that was kind of cool I just feel like we had a lot of fluff and misdirect to basically learn that the Lady tried the milk before buying the cow.

The way I read it was that the Lady knew Croaker was keeping extra copies of the Annals around, because that's what Croaker does (and he had already been under the Eye at that point) and she made sure to alter every one that she found (and chose not to destroy, because she had to figure she wouldn't get them all, so release some out there edited to her specifications) so that it didn't expose her real name, in case those were used to make more copies later. Remember, this supposedly took place before Silent named her, so if Croaker was already recording the name Dorotea in the accounts, and she couldn't be sure that she got every one of them, she decided to switch places in the story and have Dorotea be the one that absolutely positively couldn't be the Lady, so if someone found multiple accounts of the same story they would hopefully believe that Dorotea was the zombie even if another version had it the other way around.

I mean, obviously we don't know, but given that the whole story disappears from everyone's memory anyway, and if I remember correctly we're literally just reading a copy that was sort of smuggled to someone else or something, the likelihood that we are getting a copy altered by the Lady is pretty high.

Also, I don't necessarily see it as a test run because she could read the future or anything, I just think the results of this book make the fact that she placed herself in his hands later (chronologically) a little easier to accept. We didn't know it at the time she did it, but it makes more sense now that she would trust him when she was powerless, if she had already seen how he acted in this book. Sure, it could be her being able to see the future, but that's not really something that is shown a lot in the books. I just think she had to do it in Port of Shadows, and Croaker was the obvious choice to play house with, and she had all of her powers so she was completely in control regardless of what he did. But since he was not the typical mercenary rapist, she appreciated that and was able to put herself in his hands to stop the Dominator later.

EDIT: Also, no matter what else, the Lady is one of my favorite characters in all of fiction. So I'm a little biased, I admit it.

Oblio · Nov 16, 2018

Void I am listening to Shadow Games now, which one should be next? The Silver Spike or Dreams of Steel?

Actually, for that matter would you mind taking a moment to type out the order that you recommend for the series?

Sterling · Nov 16, 2018

If you don't read Silver Spike next, I'd hold off until all but the recent one to read it. It's sort of a side book.

Oblio · Nov 17, 2018

Finished Shadow Games and based on the advice from

Sterling I decided to start Dreams of Steel. Shadow Games might be my favorite nook so far. Books 1-3 were awesome but something about Shadow Games took me captive, I could not stop listening to it, I liked the ending a lot too, it felt like the ESB of the series so far.

Void · Nov 21, 2018

Oblio Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the boards much this past week. I probably would have stuck The Silver Spike in after Shadow Games, since that is the order they were published in. However, since you've started on Dreams of Steel, I'd go ahead and finish that, and then read The Silver Spike. The next book, Bleak Seasons, starts off the "finale" so to speak, and you won't want to break up those books at all with a side story. But I really wouldn't wait until the end to read The Silver Spike. It is mostly stand-alone, but it will seem really out of place if you save it for the end.

I doubt it will make much difference, but I feel that you really should have finished The Silver Spike before starting the final four books.

Since you asked, if I were to suggest an order for a new reader, it would be in publishing order. That would be:

The Black Company
Shadows Linger
The White Rose
Shadow Games
The Silver Spike
Dreams of Steel
Bleak Seasons
She Is the Darkness
Water Sleeps
Soldiers Live
Port of Shadows

I know others might disagree, but a) I feel the massive real-time gap between the first 3 books and Port of Shadows probably would make it awkward to try to jam PoS in the middle, and since it is a "forgotten" tale, it doesn't affect the main story in any significant way, and b) The Silver Spike is technically a concurrent novel with Shadow Games, so they should be read together. Technically you could put Shadow Games after The Silver Spike, but I feel it is important to get some feeling of continuation and movement with the main part of the Company before you read what happens to Raven and Darling, etc. And, as I said, that's the publishing order, so there was clearly some intent along those lines as well. I was anxiously awaiting these books when they were released, so this is the order I read them in, and every time I re-read them I do it the same way. I don't think you'll lose a lot by finishing Dreams of Steel first though, so go ahead with that anyway.

Oblio · Nov 21, 2018

Void I am already halfway through Bleak Season, which is probably my least favorite so far after Port of Shadows. Murgen is a poor man's Croaker. I will read (listen) to Silver Spike next.

Void · Nov 21, 2018

Oblio said:
Void I am already halfway through Bleak Season, which is probably my least favorite so far after Port of Shadows. Murgen is a poor man's Croaker. I will read (listen) to Silver Spike next.

Yeah, that's probably my least favorite of the series as well. At least it is fairly short.

Sterling · Nov 21, 2018

Definitely my least favorite. I was saying to wait on Silver Spike only in the sense of not disrupting the main storyline. It really doesn't matter when exactly you read it. Ideally reading it in release order is probably best but that specific book doesn't really matter.

Oblio · Dec 7, 2018

Nearing the end of Water Sleeps, I honestly think I prefer Sleepy as the narrator over Murgen. Croaker is still the best of course.

Oblio · Dec 18, 2018

Finished the series and I really did like the ending. I feel like if Cook wanted to he could continue the series in so many ways and the Port of Shadows story now feels like a wasted opportunity.

I want to know about how powerful Tobo gets and what does Lady do with her reclaimed power?

Does Croaker/Shivetya figure out how to resurrect Booboo?

Does God Croaker realize that he should not have killed Kina?

Should he have let her cleanse the world?

Does mortal Shivetya (Croaker's Body) get to bang lady? Is Lady hot again?

Does God Croaker watch over the Black Company for all of eternity?

This is just off the top of my head, I am sure I have tons more questions.

Void · Dec 18, 2018

I've always wanted him to write a prequel series about the Domination and the original Ten Who Were Taken. And the Lady of course. I think that would be far more interesting than random side stories that can't have any real consequence since they didn't affect the main storyline. Even though we know what a prequel would end with, it could still have a ton of surprises and awesome.

italica · Jan 8, 2019

Oblio said:
Finished the series and I really did like the ending. I feel like if Cook wanted to he could continue the series in so many ways and the Port of Shadows story now feels like a wasted opportunity.
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There is one more book he will be doing to finish off the series, it is not complete. "A Pitiless Rain" I believe is the title. He mentioned it in an interview back in 2017 if I remember right.

Drinsic · Jan 8, 2019

italica said:
There is one more book he will be doing to finish off the series, it is not complete. "A Pitiless Rain" I believe is the title. He mentioned it in an interview back in 2017 if I remember right.

Not sure where you go from here. Soldiers Live was a damn good ending. A book of epilogues doesn't sound like a great idea and I doubt one book will have enough pages to drum up a conflict worthy of following Soldiers Live.

Void · Jan 8, 2019

Drinsic said:
Not sure where you go from here. Soldiers Live was a damn good ending. A book of epilogues doesn't sound like a great idea and I doubt one book will have enough pages to drum up a conflict worthy of following Soldiers Live.

A couple posts up, prequel all about the Domination!

I feel like if I say it enough, maybe it will happen? How can he not see that as a fucking gold mine of possibilities? Most of the Taken were so mysterious already, hell that whole era is shrouded in mystery pretty much, it isn't like he'd have the same problem he had in Port of Shadows where nothing significant can happen. You don't even need to do the big Dominator/White Rose stuff over again, that was already done well enough in this iteration.

Do it!!!

Attog · Jan 8, 2019

Someone mentioned buying this in Waldenbooks in 1985. I practically lived in Waldenbooks in 1985 so I'm not sure how I never heard of this series, but because of this thread I ordered the first three book compilation today.

So far through FoH I have learned about and watched every Venture Bros episode and now this series, so you must not all be 100 percent a dick.

Void · Jan 9, 2019

Attog said:
Someone mentioned buying this in Waldenbooks in 1985. I practically lived in Waldenbooks in 1985 so I'm not sure how I never heard of this series, but because of this thread I ordered the first three book compilation today.

So far through FoH I have learned about and watched every Venture Bros episode and now this series, so you must not all be 100 percent a dick.

Pretty sure that was me. I was a little turned off by the cover, to be honest, but I opened it to a random page and was immediately hooked by the passage I read (which I've probably posted somewhere already).

I look forward to another Black Company convert!

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