The Boys

Kiroy · Oct 10, 2020

saving it for next season i'm sure, but the end of this should have been one or more of the boys taking V to resolve the final fights

you know another thing that I think fucks up writers heads is realizing they have a "hit" in the first season and they start fucking themselves up trying to figure out how to stretch something 4-6 and smelling their own farts really biggly so they diverge even more from the source material. Add to that a pinch of wokeness and voila, you get a mediocre network sitcom

OneofOne · Oct 10, 2020

China Bat Soup said:
Hot take: Elizabeth Shue carried the first season and the show lost its way when it became detached from her ruthless corporatist character.

Gus Fringe just couldn’t fill her shues.

Ive had a stiffy for Shue since I could have stiffies. Her presence was sorely missed this season. It felt unbalanced - like the headmaster keeping shit running was gone, and the hall monitor (Ashley) was left in charge, so the kids did want they wanted. All that tension was gone.

Frenzied Wombat · Oct 10, 2020

Just watch season finale and like most everything else this year it was mostly cringe.
All the Nazi, racism, and girl power stuff is just so cringe and tiresome. Maybe next season Homelander can just sport a Yelp logo on his cape. Never bothered to inspect the credits, but did the writers change between season 1 and 2? Shit was just so inconsistent this year.

spronk · Oct 10, 2020

Kiroy said:
saving it for next season i'm sure, but the end of this should have been one or more of the boys taking V to resolve the final fights

you know another thing that I think fucks up writers heads is realizing they have a "hit" in the first season and they start fucking themselves up trying to figure out how to stretch something 4-6 and smelling their own farts really biggly so they diverge even more from the source material. Add to that a pinch of wokeness and voila, you get a mediocre network sitcom

I think having The ~~Boys~~ Girls take V is a bit boring and predictable, what I'd really love to see is Homelander just finally goes psycho and starts murdering people left and right and flies around naked just laughing at everyone, complete mental psychotic breakdown. Giving out Joker-esque speeches as he razes cities. An entire season of a world that is essentially hiding from Homelander while he slaughters at will, with countries tossing nukes, WMDs, bioweapons, etc all failing and him taking down other supes who attack him.

Some sorta crazy finale where something does eventually take him down, TBD.

I guess thats a bit X-Menish with Sentinels, but to me thats the logical end of "Man creates superheroes. Superheroes destroy man. ?? inherits the Earth."

unfortunately thats the not the show we are going to see, its pretty clear at this point they want to stand in Homelander for "toxic masculinity" and a coalition of women and minorities bring down the patriarchy.

Ishad · Oct 10, 2020

It was fine. Arcs resolved and generally worked. Ryan and Becca out of the way is good for future seasons. Boys need to get juiced up because having them only able to run from or annoy shoes is dumb.

Homelander fucking up blindspot is my favorite part of s2.

Lithose · Oct 10, 2020

wormie said:
They wrote like shit because they wanted the story to fit their narrative just like every other SJW "artist". The story sucked not because it was about SJW ideas, the story sucked because it was written in an attempt to fit those ideas.

Well, yeah--that's exactly it. They weren't good enough to make it both satisfying from a character perspective and communicate the idea they wanted.

That and it's now really clear a lot of their themes were tacked on after the main story was fleshed out. As I feared earlier in the thread, they had absolutely zero reason why the head of Vought, a black man, was willing to continue to work with such a dangerous Nazi that hated his kind. It was simply a product of the fact that the writers wanted Gis Fring in there because he's cool and menacing, and an amazing bad guy---but also wanted the white supremacy storyline from the comics because it was political commentary they wanted. They didn't care how changing the head of Vought's race would radically alter how those story lines should have played out.

Its what made Xevy's comment about how everyone who normally complains shows change shit, now was complaining they kept the white supremacy thing. What little Xev failed to see is that TONS of other characters were changed in terms of race and gender, and even ideology/character, which made it so the white supremacy thing didn't fit as well. These writers don't look at stories holistically, rather they want to check diversity boxes in the most superficial way possible without even understanding how it will affect the story.

wormie · Oct 10, 2020

Lithose said:
Well, yeah--that's exactly it. They weren't good enough to make it both satisfying from a character perspective and communicate the idea they wanted.

That and it's now really clear a lot of their themes were tacked on after the main story was fleshed out. As I feared earlier in the thread, they had absolutely zero reason why the head of Vought, a black man, was willing to continue to work with such a dangerous Nazi that hated his kind. It was simply a product of the fact that the writers wanted Gis Fring in there because he's cool and menacing, and an amazing bad guy---but also wanted the white supremacy storyline from the comics because it was political commentary they wanted. They didn't care how changing the head of Vought's race would radically alter how those story lines should have played out.

Its what made Xevy's comment about how everyone who normally complains shows change shit, now was complaining they kept the white supremacy thing. What little Xev failed to see is that TONS of other characters were changed in terms of race and gender, and even ideology/character, which made it so the white supremacy thing didn't fit as well. These writers don't look at stories holistically, rather they want to check diversity boxes in the most superficial way possible without even understanding how it will affect the story.

I actually didn't mind the reasoning given for why Gus was OK with working with a nazi. After all there were plenty of Jews that sold-out others to the nazis during ww2. But the rest is still trash written by a six year old.

Fucker · Oct 10, 2020

The show definitely went down in quality. Perhaps their budget got evicserated, because there were a lot of supes standing around talking most of the time.

It has Erin Moriarty, so I will continue to watch it.

Lithose · Oct 10, 2020

wormie said:
I actually didn't mind the reasoning given for why Gus was OK with working with a nazi. After all there were plenty of Jews that sold-out others to the nazis during ww2. But the rest is still trash written by a six year old.

There is a huge difference between a Jew who is facing death and some CEO who has all the power and doesn't need this dumb Nazi around AT ALL (His reasoning is so ridiculous, because she primes the market? The fuck? LOL). There was zero reason to keep her--she wasn't essential to the research or anything. He could have ended her a long time ago with the same information he eventually used to do so and carried on.

But what was worse is they tried to tack on the reason that its a "white man's luxury" to lash out because they are entitled and that's why he didn't do it!....As if black people aren't allowed to lash out due to racism in the modern era. I guess the producers missed the massive amount of riots because a kidnapping, rapist got shot while he was going for a knife and kidnapping children?

It was absurd reasoning. Pretty far removed from "I helped the Nazis because they were going to throw me in an oven otherwise". He had all the power, and what's worse, he had the total moral high ground--our society gets off to racists being punished, especially by a black man. It made ZERO sense on any level and by far was the most absurd thing in that whole episode.

TJT · Oct 10, 2020

That is a pretty minor gripe. Stan pretty much hates all of the Seven and thinks they're annoying children he has to deal with in the name of profits.

Stormfront played her part on the Seven well and if they made money I don't think he would have given a shit. Despite being a world of superheroes they shouldn't have just accepted that Stormfront was a 100-year-old actual Nazi so instantly like they did. She was the only one in the world who had such longevity from Compound V, it would have been extremely easy to mitigate the fallout from it. I mean, Vought tolerated Stormfront for literally a century. They had no reason to stop now.

Now, fitting actual Nazis in as plot devices in modern material nearly 100 years after the fact when anyone that had even tertiary ties to Nazis are most likely dead? It just gets hamfisted.

Kiroy · Oct 10, 2020

Lithose said:
There is a huge difference between a Jew who is facing death and some CEO who has all the power and doesn't need this dumb Nazi around AT ALL (His reasoning is so ridiculous, because she primes the market? The fuck? LOL). There was zero reason to keep her--she wasn't essential to the research or anything. He could have ended her a long time ago with the same information and carried on.

But what was worse is they tried to tack on the reason that its a "white man's luxury" to lash out because they are entitled....as if black people aren't allowed to lash out due to racism in the modern era. I guess the producers missed the massive amount of riots because a kidnapping, rapist got shot while he was going for a knife?

It was an absurd reasoning. Pretty far removed from "I helped the Nazis because they were going to throw me in an oven otherwise". He had all the power, and what's worse, he had the total moral high ground--our society gets off to racists being punished, especially by a black man. It made ZERO sense.

??

her power is she could throw people 5 or 6 feet with lightning bolts? how could gus not keep her around?

wormie · Oct 10, 2020

Lithose said:
There is a huge difference between a Jew who is facing death and some CEO who has all the power and doesn't need this dumb Nazi around AT ALL (His reasoning is so ridiculous, because she primes the market? The fuck? LOL). There was zero reason to keep her--she wasn't essential to the research or anything. He could have ended her a long time ago with the same information and carried on.

But what was worse is they tried to tack on the reason that its a "white man's luxury" to lash out because they are entitled....as if black people aren't allowed to lash out due to racism in the modern era. I guess the producers missed the massive amount of riots because a kidnapping, rapist got shot while he was going for a knife?

It was an absurd reasoning. Pretty far removed from "I helped the Nazis because they were going to throw me in an oven otherwise". He had all the power, and what's worse, he had the total moral high ground--our society gets off to racists being punished, especially by a black man. It made ZERO sense.

Plenty of people sold out their friends and neighbors not out of fear but for money. Gus is that person.

Lithose · Oct 10, 2020

TJT said:
That is a pretty minor gripe. Stan pretty much hates all of the Seven and thinks they're annoying children he has to deal with in the name of profits.

Stormfront played her part on the Seven well and if they made money I don't think he would have given a shit. Despite being a world of superheroes they shouldn't have just accepted that Stormfront was a 100-year-old actual Nazi so instantly like they did. She was the only one in the world who had such longevity from Compound V, it would have been extremely easy to mitigate the fallout from it. I mean, Vought tolerated Stormfront for literally a century. They had no reason to stop now.

Now, fitting actual Nazis in as plot devices in modern material nearly 100 years after the fact when anyone that had even tertiary ties to Nazis are most likely dead? It just gets hamfisted.

She was a part of Vought for decades before she got to the Seven...where they had to actively hide her and redo her image because she was mindlessly slaughtering black people.

And a black CEO was like "you know what? Put her on the 7...because she fires people up!"

Come on guys. It would be different if she had always been on the seven, but the story specifically was written with her being out in the weed and hidden because she was a psychopath.

Lithose · Oct 10, 2020

wormie said:
Plenty of people sold out their friends and neighbors not out of fear but for money. Gus is that person.

Yes, but the connection to money was also weak. Because she "fired people up"....? She wasn't doing that in the show until that very year. As said, this would be different if her blood was needed for compound V or there was some essential connection to money. But he's keeping a super powered Nazi around that is intimately involved in creating a super race, who specifically dislikes him and he knows she will kill him when she has the chance....because she motivates viewers to be angry...and anger makes them wants compound V?

Terrible, awful writing.

wormie · Oct 10, 2020

Lithose said:
Yes, but the connection to money was also weak. Because she "fired people up"....? She wasn't doing that in the show until that very year. As said, this would be different if her blood was needed for compound V or there was some essential connection to money. But he's keeping a super powered Nazi around that is intimately involved in creating a super race, who specifically dislikes him and he knows she will kill him when she has the chance....because she motivates viewers to be angry...and anger makes them wants compound V?

Terrible, awful writing.

Selling V to the public was the result of V becoming public knowledge. The original intent of having Stormfront on the team is to rile up the masses against immigrants among whom super terrorists were hiding. All in order to get government contracts to protect the country with supes. You are forgetting a story line I think.

Lithose · Oct 10, 2020

wormie said:
Selling V to the public was the result of V becoming public knowledge. The original intent of having Stormfront on the team is to rile up the masses against immigrants among whom super terrorists were hiding. All in order to get government contracts to protect the country with supes. You are forgetting a story line I think.

They already had the military contract before she was in the show. They finalized it episode 1 of S2. So she was never needed for that aspect. And yet she was brought in before the news of V leaked, so she wasn't brought in to cover for that when they swapped to making people okay with compound V.

The timeline just doesn't work.

Haus · Oct 10, 2020

TJT said:
That is a pretty minor gripe. Stan pretty much hates all of the Seven and thinks they're annoying children he has to deal with in the name of profits.

Stormfront played her part on the Seven well and if they made money I don't think he would have given a shit. Despite being a world of superheroes they shouldn't have just accepted that Stormfront was a 100-year-old actual Nazi so instantly like they did. She was the only one in the world who had such longevity from Compound V, it would have been extremely easy to mitigate the fallout from it. I mean, Vought tolerated Stormfront for literally a century. They had no reason to stop now.

Now, fitting actual Nazis in as plot devices in modern material nearly 100 years after the fact when anyone that had even tertiary ties to Nazis are most likely dead? It just gets hamfisted.

I got the impression that she had been kept around that long because having been OG Vought and known the man himself she knew enough about his work to be involved with the stuff going on at the research facility, as she seemed to be one of few active supes who were in the know on it (like Lamplighter). She was flying out for status checks (and probably to get some of that prehensile Love Sausage), and she was overseeing the project. That makes me think she was so ingrained in Vought , for so long, that Edgar didn't have an easy way to just be rid of her anyways. So as such he used her as a tool.

Jozu · Oct 10, 2020

Yea now that I think of it, they way they handled all of the "special" effects concerning supe powers was horrible. Like we talked about, perhaps it was the limited effects budget, or plot armor problems, but either way it made every confrontation feel ridiculous and underwhelming. They portray brutality when it serves the plot, and its well done (head popping etc), but when you have Stormfront force pushing people with lightning bolts, have a pg-13 Kimoko running around, and people miraculously surviving explosions and car wrecks it really takes away from the shows quality.

Ryan blasting Stormfront like that, but then somehow not destroying his mother topped everything off.

Kiroy · Oct 10, 2020

Jozu said:
Yea now that I think of it, they way they handled all of the "special" effects concerning supe powers was horrible. Like we talked about, perhaps it was the limited effects budget, or plot armor problems, but either way it made every confrontation feel ridiculous and underwhelming. They portray brutality when it serves the plot, and its well done (head popping etc), but when you have Stormfront force pushing people with lightning bolts, have a pg-13 Kimoko running around, and people miraculously surviving explosions and car wrecks it really takes away from the shows quality.

Ryan blasting Stormfront like that, but then somehow not destroying his mother topped everything off.

you don't have a hit tv show and slash the effects budget - it was some how skimmed or the writing was THAT bad

Airisch · Oct 10, 2020

I like that stormfronts lightning was enough to blow apart buildings when they introduced her. Then it magically turned into levitation tickle sparkles.

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