The Boys

Yea good point. maybe it wasnt a slashed budget, but like I said maybe they spent a large amount of it on the whale scene and had to kind of make it work the rest of the way. Either way its sad. Hopefully they get back on track for season 3.

Covid fucked everything up.

Writing was really poor. Can't blame covid for that.

One detail I noticed we didn't pick up on in these posts: There was a point where Stormfront was telling them they would have an army of Supes, then Homelander says "well, there are still billions of the non-supes", then she mentions that Frederick had a plan for that too.

That could have potentially been part of Gus' reason to keep her around: Figure out what the contingency plan was, so it couldn't be used against them later if things got out of control.

Lithose said:

There is a huge difference between a Jew who is facing death and some CEO who has all the power and doesn't need this dumb Nazi around AT ALL (His reasoning is so ridiculous, because she primes the market? The fuck? LOL). There was zero reason to keep her--she wasn't essential to the research or anything. He could have ended her a long time ago with the same information he eventually used to do so and carried on.

But what was worse is they tried to tack on the reason that its a "white man's luxury" to lash out because they are entitled and that's why he didn't do it!....As if black people aren't allowed to lash out due to racism in the modern era. I guess the producers missed the massive amount of riots because a kidnapping, rapist got shot while he was going for a knife and kidnapping children?

It was absurd reasoning. Pretty far removed from "I helped the Nazis because they were going to throw me in an oven otherwise". He had all the power, and what's worse, he had the total moral high ground--our society gets off to racists being punished, especially by a black man. It made ZERO sense on any level and by far was the most absurd thing in that whole episode.

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We don't know how essential she was to the research, or how deeply entrenched into Vought she was. She was married to the company's founder and her time there predates Gus by a lot.

There's also the fact that she could expose the company's darkest secrets as well as just murder the shit out of Gus if he tried to betray her. Not sure why you think he could just fire and be done with her.

Ambiturner said:

We don't know how essential she was to the research, or how deeply entrenched into Vought she was. She was married to the company's founder and her time there predates Gus by a lot.

There's also the fact that she could expose the company's darkest secrets as well as just murder the shit out of Gus if he tried to betray her. Not sure why you think he could just fire and be done with her.

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None of this was shown, despite them showing what she was doing at Vought and her actions being a central theme to the story. When you have to make up theories as to why characters are acting against their own interests, its typically bad writing. Showing she had major pull in Vought and as much or more clout than the Gus, shouldn't have been hard...Especially given how much of this season dragged on and discovering her pull in the company and why she was so valuable would have actually been interesting.

As for Gus firing her and why I think he could have mopped her up easily..The show ACTUALLY showed us how easy Stormfront was to take out, that's the irony. Meanwhile, it did NOT show us WHY she wasn't taken out. Stormfront should have been truly dangerous and really killed a bunch of people on the way down, and potentially hurt Vought during her downfall to paint the picture of why Gus avoided confrontation with her (As someone else in the thread said, her downfall should have been over a couple episodes and actually been grueling and epic, again to show why Gus avoided the fight) Instead Stormfront got taken down like a little bitch, and a SINGLE leak destroyed her public image. Given Gus keeps an entire company of Super Heroes in line, Stormfront's demise illustrates he should have had no problem with her.

I mean, again, the season went over clearly that Gus has Supe assassins who will do his dirty work (Noir) and its shown Gus knows where the bodies are buried (Nazi origins) and its also shown Gus is a master at manipulating narratives/media (He has a supe as his personal assassin inside Congress, who is also the voice of the opposition--he is literally controlling his opposition). So given he could have released her Nazi pictures at any time, and is a master at manipulating media...and had supes who would fight her which were more powerful than the supes who kicked her ass (Noir, A-Train), we were shown, again and again, why she'd be easy for him to destroy. Meanwhile, what we were not shown, is that she was fundamental to the research or any other thing that would have made her impossible to get rid of (We were TOLD its because she...gets people angry...lol)

Lithose said:

None of this was shown, despite them showing what she was doing at Vought and her actions being a central theme to the story. When you have to make up theories as to why characters are acting against their own interests and like buffoons, its typically bad writing. Showing she had major pull in Vought and as much or more clout than the Gus, shouldn't have been hard...Especially given how much of this season dragged on and discovering her pull in the company and why she was so valuable would have actually been interesting.

As for Gus firing her...Gus clearly has a bunch of heroes who will do his dirty work. He also has two black heroes in the seven whom he can just say "that bitch is a Nazi". Since Starlight and Maeve kicked her ass, Black Noir and A-Train shouldn't have much trouble with her. In the end, I think Gus could have handled her easily because the season showed me 1.) Gus knew about her Nazi origins and had the dirt on her and Vought (The man.) 2.) Gus had access to literal Sup assassins 3.) There was so much shit on her, including pictures of her with the literal Nazi high command, that she would have been buried...and we know this, because that actually happened.

The show pretty much showed us how easy Stormfront was to take out...that's the irony. Meanwhile, it did NOT show us WHY she wasn't taken out. That's why the writing was awful. Stormfront should have been truly dangerous and really killed a bunch of people on the way down, and potentially hurt Vought during her downfall (As someone else in the thread said, her downfall should have been over a couple episodes. We should have gotten a taste of why Edgar was scared to fuck with her) Instead stormfront got taken down like a little bitch, and a SINGLE leak destroyed her public image. Given Edgar keeps an entire company of Super Heroes in line, Stormfront's demise illustrates he should have had no problem with her. (Especially if he has infiltrated Congress ect with Supes).

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They did show her importance as the one who was in charge of the compound and the wife of the original founder. Edgar even specifically says she's useful and good for business and that's the only thing that matters. None of this takes any theorycrafting. What in the show ever told you he, or anything to do with Vought, wiuld ever put their morals before money?

I also disagree that everything should be 100% explained and the audience's hand held or it's awful writing.

Awful writing is the fight scene where they're beating Stormfront like the printer from Office Space and then she just flies away.

Ambiturner said:

They did show her importance as the one who was in charge of the compound and the wife of the original founder. Edgar even specifically says she's useful and good for business and that's the only thing that matters. None of this takes any theorycrafting. What in the show ever told you he, or anything to do with Vought, wiuld ever put their morals before money?

I also disagree that everything should be 100% explained and the audience's hand held or it's awful writing.

Awful writing is the fight scene where they're beating Stormfront like the printer from Office Space and then she just flies away.

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What did she do there? She was essentially a guard. That's it. That's all we saw. And its not about having your hand held to explain things. Its about SHOWING why your characters are acting a certain way, rather than telling, especially if they are acting against their own self interest (Especially if the "tell" makes zero sense). In this case, Stormfront's goal was to kill Gus and all people like him. Literal extermination and she was actively researching the means to do that. She was a literal existential threat to him. So ample reason for conflict. Now, these are the reasons why he avoided conflict that...(based off of what's been SHOWN and told to us).

1.) She kills some people who disrupt the experiments. (Something Noir or a bunch of others could do).
2.) She "gets people angry", and that will help us sell compound V. (Forget the fact that, as said, she joined the Seven when they didn't need this...so...yeah..)

It doesn't play out. This could have been fixed with a single scene where they were taking her blood or she was personally doing research, or a scene where her and Gus disagreed and she showed what kind of cards she could play against Gus. There are a ton of ways to SHOW why Gus was wary of her...And they just didn't.

Lithose said:

What did she do there? She was essentially a guard. That's it. That's all we saw. And its not about having your hand held to explain things. Its about SHOWING why your characters are acting a certain way, rather than telling, especially if they are acting against their own self interest (Especially if the "tell" makes zero sense). In this case, Stormfront's goal was to kill Gus and all people like him. Literal extermination and she was actively researching the means to do that. She was a literal existential threat to him. So ample reason for conflict. Now, these are the reasons why he avoided conflict that...(based off of what's been SHOWN and told to us).

1.) She kills some people who disrupt the experiments. (Something Noir or a bunch of others could do).
2.) She "gets people angry", and that will help us sell compound V. (Forget the fact that, as said, she joined the Seven when they didn't need this...so...yeah..)

It doesn't play out. This could have been fixed with a single scene where they were taking her blood or she was personally doing research, or a scene where her and Gus disagreed and she showed what kind of cards she could play against Gus. There are a ton of ways to SHOW why Gus was wary of her...And they just didn't.

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Guard? Did you even watch the show? She ran the place. Her powers and 100 years of knowledge and experience with compound V would make her pretty much irreplaceable in that role. This is simple stuff and doesn't need a whole scene to hold someone's hand and tell them 1+1=2.

Edgar also hasn't been afraid to put Homelander in his place so why would he be afraid of Stormfront? They also foreshadow Vought having some contingency plan if supes get out of hand.

There are examples of bad writing, but the evil CEO caring more about money and power than his race just isn't one of them

TJT said:

That happens all the time though. Game of Thrones at the height of its popularity.... budget slashed.

I won't pretend to understand the business decisions of Hollywood. Rational business actors would seize that to increase the budget and gain even more of the market due to their popularity. But TV doesn't seem to work that way. Rather get popular, cut the budget for the show to increase marketing and merch tie in budget, and ride the success out. That is until the actual product causes you to lose money with your auxiliary money makers because of that shit quality.

I guess make the big short term bucks and move on? Seems to be par the course for the industry.

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Execs get greedier when the money starts rolling in. They wouldn't pay a dime to anyone of would save someone's life. Execs start panicing when their top stars negotiate for bigger pay, too.

Crazy to think that Cersei had $5 in her bank account when the show started. She doesn't have to sweat for cash anymore.

Is the senator V’s backup plan that will become main plan?

Ambiturner said:

Guard? Did you even watch the show? She ran the place. Her powers and 100 years of knowledge and experience with compound V would make her pretty much irreplaceable in that role. This is simple stuff and doesn't need a whole scene to hold someone's hand and tell them 1+1=2.

Edgar also hasn't been afraid to put Homelander in his place so why would he be afraid of Stormfront? They also foreshadow Vought having some contingency plan if supes get out of hand.

There are examples of bad writing, but the evil CEO caring more about money and power than his race just isn't one of them

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Did you? The only thing we see is her killing people who escape, and ordering people killed who no longer are cooperating with researchers. You assume she has some experience...why? She's a test subject. She's not a Nazi scientist. When Athletes use steroids do you think they develop a working knowledge of pharmacology? If the show wanted to show us what you assume is there, a simple scene where she corrects a scientist, or even looks over some lab results would have been plenty. You don't need to hold the audiences hand, but something is needed when you're attempting to explain why someone isn't reacting to their life being threatened.

Instead the show focused on her killing people. She was literally just a goon, a job ANY other supe could do. The show did nothing to establish your assumptions, in fact it does the opposite. It established Vought has a massive drug research division that is in hospitals all across the country and has regenerating supes actively working with compound V all day. The idea that despite that mountain of expertise that her expertise is invaluable or she has some superior understanding needs some strong evidence behind it. Like she'd need to be a Nazi super scientist to be considered essential compared to that kind of established working knowledge. But in her past, we don't see her in labs or have any indication she was working with compound V...In the flash backs of 40-50 years ago, we see her killing someone...in her time in the lab we see her...killing someone. When exactly did we ever see her do anything that would indicate she knew anything about the science? (Even Edgar says her expertise is social media, not science--and the show does show her social media expertise extensively)

And yes..that's my point with Edgar. He's not afraid. So why wouldn't he get rid of her? Your answer is because he cares more about money than his life but even sociopaths prioritize their own safety. Explaining his motivations beyond "the person who wants to murder me makes us money!" is not asking to show why 1+1=2, its asking why 1+1=9. Its so painfully clear zero thought went into this beyond "hey, evil CEOs would sell their own children for money!"..Which, is just bad writing, its shitty, one dimensional caricatures that serve the plot rather than the other way around.

Lithose said:

Did you? The only thing we see is her killing people who escape, and ordering people killed who no longer are cooperating with researchers. You assume she has some experience...why? She's a test subject. She's not a Nazi scientist. When Athletes use steroids do you think they develop a working knowledge of pharmacology? If the show wanted to show us what you assume is there, a simple scene where she corrects a scientist, or even looks over some lab results would have been plenty. You don't need to hold the audiences hand, but something is needed when you're attempting to explain why someone isn't reacting to their life being threatened.

Instead the show focused on her killing people. She was literally just a goon, a job ANY other supe could do. The show did nothing to establish your assumptions, in fact it does the opposite. It established Vought has a massive drug research division that is in hospitals all across the country and has regenerating supes actively working with compound V all day. The idea that despite that mountain of expertise that her expertise is invaluable or she has some superior understanding needs some strong evidence behind it. Like she'd need to be a Nazi super scientist to be considered essential compared to that kind of established working knowledge. But in her past, we don't see her in labs or have any indication she was working with compound V...In the flash backs of 40-50 years ago, we see her killing someone...in her time in the lab we see her...killing someone. When exactly did we ever see her do anything that would indicate she knew anything about the science? (Even Edgar says her expertise is social media, not science--and the show does show her social media expertise extensively)

And yes..that's my point with Edgar. He's not afraid. So why wouldn't he get rid of her? Your answer is because he cares more about money than his life but even sociopaths prioritize their own safety. Explaining his motivations beyond "the person who wants to murder me makes us money!" is not asking to show why 1+1=2, its asking why 1+1=9. Its so painfully clear zero thought went into this beyond "hey, evil CEOs would sell their own children for money!"..Which, is just bad writing, its shitty, one dimensional caricatures that serve the plot rather than the other way around.

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They already said she was running the place, not sure why that's not enough and they have to show her staring at slides under a microscope or ordering ABGs.

Edgar also isn't afraid of supes so the fact she'll want to kill him eventually shouldn't matter to him. You should be equally upset that she's willing to work with him. Why would she work with someone she hates? Just because his resources are useful? LAZY WRITING LOL!! People always achieve success by making decisions based on emotion instead of pragmatism.