The Definitive Escape Key discussion thread

Blazin · Jun 11, 2024

Let's discuss the escape key in RPGs. We expect much of that key. If I have a container open AND a target:
1. does escape close the container and leave the target then press again to clear the target
2. does it close both at the same time?
3. Does escape only bring up the escape menu (quit game, go to main menu etc.) if there is no target and no open closable UI element?

I think people like the hierarchical nature of escape but that can have its drawbacks, maybe three or even four presses at times to get to what you want, but is that the price we pay for luxury?

Share your thoughts, are you a Escape minimalist and only want it to be the menu, if so how do you like to clear a target.

For the maximalist, what is the window priority list?
Considerations:
Container Window
Inventory Window
Character Window
Abilities/Skills Window

If you are clicker you can take your filthy self somewhere else your kind is not wanted here. This is a discussion for people who have sufficient mental faculties to not click UI elements.

Tuco · Jun 11, 2024

I hit ctrl + shift + b to open up 32 inventory/bank bags in EQ, then when I'm done I hit escape 32 times to close them all.

Palum · Jun 11, 2024

Penance · Jun 11, 2024

Should be contextual and close the last thing you selected/opened.

Captain Suave · Jun 11, 2024

Penance said:
Should be contextual and close the last thing you selected/opened.

This is the way. If I need to clear everything fast the time cost of hitting the key 4-5 times is trivial.

Blazin · Jun 11, 2024

Penance said:
Should be contextual and close the last thing you selected/opened.

Before or after a target clear?

I like this idea, I would have to think about it's implementation. It's a little heavier of an answer because that means I have to maintain logic to track all interactions with the UI and keep an array of their interacted order, constantly calling functions to add and remove elements.

So far this morning I've set it up as a series of bool checks:
Is abilities page open if yes close (ability page takes up most of the screen and a player hitting escape would very likely want that page to close rather than something else)
Is there a valid target if yes clear
Is there an Existing Escape Menu already, if yes clear

Blazin · Jun 11, 2024

Tuco said:
I hit ctrl + shift + b to open up 32 inventory/bank bags in EQ, then when I'm done I hit escape 32 times to close them all.

I'll just log you in the "I'm okay with hitting escape more than once" column.

Control · Jun 11, 2024

Blazin said:
Let's discuss the escape key in RPGs. We expect much of that key. If I have a container open AND a target:
1. does escape close the container and leave the target then press again to clear the target
2. does it close both at the same time?
3. Does escape only bring up the escape menu (quit game, go to main menu etc.) if there is no target and no open closable UI element?

I think people like the hierarchical nature of escape but that can have its drawbacks, maybe three or even four presses at times to get to what you want, but is that the price we pay for luxury?

Share your thoughts, are you a Escape minimalist and only want it to be the menu, if so how do you like to clear a target.

For the maximalist, what is the window priority list?
Considerations:
Container Window
Inventory Window
Character Window
Abilities/Skills Window

If you are clicker you can take your filthy self somewhere else your kind is not wanted here. This is a discussion for people who have sufficient mental faculties to not click UI elements.

1: yes
2: no
3: yes
priority: inverse of opening order

Vinjin · Jun 12, 2024

I saw this thread title and immediately thought, "holy shit these fuckers will discuss GD anything". Clicked in for the lolz.

Halfway through the first page of replies and suddenly realized this is a real issue that needs discussion. I'm already invested.

Count me in among those who say it's contextual and should close the last thing you opened. So yes, no, yes.

Xerge · Jun 12, 2024

As long as hitting escape twice doesn't close the app. like Retroarch does you're fine I think.

Blazin · Jun 12, 2024

Vinjin said:
I saw this thread title and immediately thought, "holy shit these fuckers will discuss GD anything". Clicked in for the lolz.

Halfway through the first page of replies and suddenly realized this is a real issue that needs discussion. I'm already invested.

Count me in among those who say it's contextual and should close the last thing you opened. So yes, no, yes.

There is a lot of gaming experience here and I really appreciate what insight people are willing to share on small technical issues like this. Have something just not ready to show yet but getting close, but my days are consumed with thinking of these minor details as of late.

It's the game development topics that have no "right answer" people have different views based on their particular experience and play styles. I had mentioned previously in the amod thread but how to highlight current target is still one that I'm stuck on, other than knowing that my current implementation is insufficient.

Targeting is another, especially tab target. SHould it cycle, should it target nearest, should it ignore mobs behind you. Every function gets complicated quickly when you start thinking of practical application. While I was humored to make a thread about the escape key wouldn't mind one for a general theory discussion on player input and UI.

Palum · Jun 12, 2024

Blazin said:
There is a lot of gaming experience here and I really appreciate what insight people are willing to share on small technical issues like this. Have something just not ready to show yet but getting close, but my days are consumed with thinking of these minor details as of late.

It's the game development topics that have no "right answer" people have different views based on their particular experience and play styles. I had mentioned previously in the amod thread but how to highlight current target is still one that I'm stuck on, other than knowing that my current implementation is insufficient.

Targeting is another, especially tab target. SHould it cycle, should it target nearest, should it ignore mobs behind you. Every function gets complicated quickly when you start thinking of practical application. While I was humored to make a thread about the escape key wouldn't mind one for a general theory discussion on player input and UI.

All of these things should be selectable options though.

Blazin · Jun 12, 2024

Palum said:
All of these things should be selectable options though.

I agree completely, but I have only me and inexperience to boot. For it to be a selectable option means it has to be a functional implemented option. So the discussion is more about the implementation of that feature in the first place. This entire process has been an eye opener of how some seemingly simple feature can get complicated very easily. Some restraint ends up being necessary out of necessity, so it's more an attempt to find the line of crucial/needed

Palum · Jun 12, 2024

Blazin said:
I agree completely, but I have only me and inexperience to boot. For it to be a selectable option means it has to be a functional implemented option. So the discussion is more about the implementation of that feature in the first place. This entire process has been an eye opener of how some seemingly simple feature can get complicated very easily. Some restraint ends up being necessary out of necessity, so it's more an attempt to find the line of crucial/needed

Also it should be context sensitive, so more complex!

Kharzette · Jun 12, 2024

This is one of those things that I know sometimes a game gets wrong but I can only remember Morrowind. There was something about the way Morrowind used the esc key that drove me clazy.

Control · Jun 12, 2024

Blazin said:
SHould it cycle, should it target nearest, should it ignore mobs behind you.

yes, yes, maybe (also, shift-tab should cycle in reverse order!)
I think it should generally be limited to mobs you can see, so if you're in 3rd person and can see the mobs behind you then maybe. Possible not though if your game only has forward-facing abilities. Also, the 'only if you can see it' would have a lot to do with the desired gameplay. Should you be able to target something in a different room behind a wall? what if the room's door is open? Around a corner? On the other side of a hill? or tree? On top of the roof of the house you're standing outside of but still out of line of sight? Max range? And then, will any conditions cause you to lose target? Do any of the rules apply if you have any sort of an "assist" feature?

Lots of fun rabbit holes!

Void · Jun 12, 2024

This all seems overly complicated for EQ in a browser.

Palum · Jun 12, 2024

Void said:
This all seems overly complicated for EQ in a browser.

Yes, why do you need an escape key? If the UI is good it should know the intentions and close windows automatically.

Blazin · Jun 12, 2024

Control said:
yes, yes, maybe (also, shift-tab should cycle in reverse order!)
I think it should generally be limited to mobs you can see, so if you're in 3rd person and can see the mobs behind you then maybe. Possible not though if your game only has forward-facing abilities. Also, the 'only if you can see it' would have a lot to do with the desired gameplay. Should you be able to target something in a different room behind a wall? what if the room's door is open? Around a corner? On the other side of a hill? or tree? On top of the roof of the house you're standing outside of but still out of line of sight? Max range? And then, will any conditions cause you to lose target? Do any of the rules apply if you have any sort of an "assist" feature?

Lots of fun rabbit holes!

I never thought about the details of tab target as a player. The way I came up with doing it is to keep an array of target actors so that it doesn't attempt to repeat an already targeted actor but that array needs to expire, you have to get that expiration just right that the player doesn't think about it by the time they want it to start over it does. I did set it up to not target npcs behind walls etc. But even a simple thing of Line of sight can mean different things. If I check from the pawn or the camera. The player often thinks of the camera since its what they see but the camera in a third person setting can see things the pawn can't. It does at times target something out of your view but not out of your pawn's LOS and you may not realize where the npc you ahve targeted is without making a point of looking for it. There is feedback to know but its why I like to watch people play, some more astute than others, but fair bit of people assuming tab is targeting the mob, they the player is looking at rather than one that is closer off to their left or right

In current testing I've disabled first person , some games handle clipping issues by making your mesh invisible while in FP . I find fp makes people want to fiddle with FoV a lot and it has little upside. THe people who have play tested so far when given the choice were using third person.

Kriptini · Jun 12, 2024

Escape key should always close UI windows before clearing target. Here's my ideal priority:

Close most recently-opened window. In the case of a shop where bags are automatically opened alongside the merchant window, close the merchant window first.
Cancel cast/channel of ability.
Clear target.
Open system menu.

The Definitive Escape Key discussion thread

Creative Title

I got Tuco'd!

what Suineg set it to

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.

Creative Title

Creative Title

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

Lord Nagafen Raider

Creative Title

what Suineg set it to

Creative Title

what Suineg set it to

Watcher of Overs

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

BAU BAU

what Suineg set it to

Creative Title

Vyemm Raider