The Elder Scrolls Online

Hmm I did one quest that was pretty rough as a templar. I had to kite the stupid dog looking mob around and around, heal myself , block etc. It took probably 1-2 minutes to kill the thing. I think was I was level 5 or 6 and this dog was guarding some books. I might of been under leveled not sure, but the bitch had a lot of HP compared to the usual mobs I was fighting before it and hit hard.

Kreugen_sl said:

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the ridiculous comparison of ESO and EQ. In EQ, you had to look to find things that you could kill effortlessly for some measure of profit. In ESO it's the other way around. Which is fine, I don't care that you don't have to find 5 other people just to go outside the town gates, except they go way too far with it. It doesn't feel like combat, it feels like assassination. It feels like being level 30 and killing ratsall the time - unless you go out of your way to find something challenging.

That's why I was baffled by the comparison. The pace is so ridiculously far from EQ - kill mob in 2-4 hits or one or two special attacks, regen back any resources used within seconds, repeat - vs a minute long slugfest followed by 15 minutes of sitting on your ass. Both represent the furthest extremes from one another. There's a happy medium somewhere, and this isn't it.

This is also something that could very easily be changed, if they wanted to. Otherwise I wouldn't bother discussing it. I'm not often someone that says "the combat would be better if it lasted longer" because man, I remember the twats from various betas who think every rat and snake should be a 2-5 minute affair. But in this game it's just true.

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If you are going to limit the comparison between games to strictly how long it takes to kill a mob, then you are indeed correct it is a ridiculous comparison. Killing trash mobs in EQ1 took significantly longer than it does in ESO.

If you are willing to expand the comparison to how group members in ESO have to work together as a team in order to complete the private group dungeons, then there is a valid comparison to EQ1. There is no AOE tanking and massive AOE DPS in ESO compared to other WoW clones. In some ESO dev diary I read somewhere about a month ago, the dev talked about trash mobs having a unique AI compared to other MMOs. In a typical trash pull there will be 5-7 mobs. The mobs will spread out to attack all 4 players in the group. I have tested this by not doing anything at all during a pull and I still get 1-2 mobs attacking me. If you are melee and you close range with a ranged DPS mob, they will attempt to move back. This can cause other mob groups to aggro. In some private & public group dungeons my group has had to deal with 10+ mobs at a time. Assuming you are level appropriate for the dungeon you are in, you can't survive those kind of fights unless everyone brings their A game.

Lastly, I have not done any veteran dungeons yet but several guildies who are VR5+ have said they are brutal and the most challenging PVE content they have ever played in a MMO. I view that as a positive sign and hope the difficulty doesn't get nerfed.

signati_sl said:

Exactly, and sorry for the edits. I just can't stress enough how amazing that experience was even though it seemed some techie was pushing a "ruin it" button. And this happened to alliance members selectively, simultaneously, but not only on one alliance -- that's how we know it was fake lag. I hope they stop twisting the story and instead just focus on what actually happened and was actually amazing.

Going down the steps to Aleswell at one point where the Dominion was simultaneously attacking, it hardly felt like a video game. The sheer numbers, the amount of action going on made it feel like war in a way that no game has ever achieved. That was the crowning moment for PvP during that session, in my eyes. It's an experience I would gladly maintain a subscription to repeat (assuming it can when people start getting spread over instances).

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What exactly do you mean by "some techie pushing a 'ruin it' button"?

Are you claiming someone from Zenimax purposely caused players to disconnect or are you claiming the players from the opposing force were doing something to cause the disconnects of players on your side?

mkopec_sl said:

You simply could of went out and found higher level things to kill. When I was doing quests it seemed like the mobs were consistanlty 1-2 levels below me and posed me no challenge at all unless I aggroed more than two.

But later when I hit Daggerfall I went exploring a bit and found some +2 and +3 mobs which were in no way a joke and trivial TTK. You actually had to use your shield to block and use all of your skills. And if you got 2 you were pretty much dead. So yeah the challenge is there, its just not there when you are doing questing and stay behind the curve 1-2 levels.

Also I found many named mobs that were tougher which did drop some unique shit as well, so yeah thats there too. Kind of reminded me of SWTOR elite mobs which dropped the orange moddable unique looking gear and weapons that they later took away because of the cash shops. So yeah its all there you just have to get off the beaten "quest" path and search around a bit. Also this is where I found most of the herbs and mining nodes as well.

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If you are a PVE completionist like me, you do every quest in the zone you can before you move on to the next zone. The drawback to that is that it is inevitable that at some point you will be 4-5 levels above some of the mobs you are fighting and the associated quest will be gray. There is almost zero challenge at that point so I use the opportunity to level up skills I don't routinely use.

Darkness Falls. Mythics first mud? One of the best PvP mmorpgs EVER

Krysanth_sl said:

Darkness Falls. Mythics first mud? One of the best PvP mmorpgs EVER

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So is the best yet to come? I thinking it would be good for them to have something in the next month or so to hold everyone's head to keep them tuned in. I hope they are planning good things. You can get a lot of mileage out of certain things in the first month or so but when you get into that 3-6 month time frame, people really reveal their expectations and rightly so...

I hate that fucking argument so much. "derp just go find mobs higher level than you, there's your challenge!" Yeah, I could go fight the AOW naked and blindfolded at level 5 by slapping the keyboard with my dick, too. But that's obviously not what they intend.

No game should start out this fucking easy. Which was my point and the only thing I was discussing. If you're given abilities you should have to use those abilities right from the start. Things should live long enough to make combat feel like combat. Sure, I had a good time fighting +5's for their 1 gold, but it sure as shit was not a useful way to go about things.

But good to hear that dungeons get challenging eventually. You know, like every other MMO ever made, so again I don't know what that has to do with EQ. AOE piles is what WoW became but it sure as hell is not where it started.

As a bow-using nightblade, even with only 1 piece of green gear, I pretty much one-shot everything if I Shadow Cloaked, or just plain snuck. If I didn't one-shot, an instant Poison Arrow or Strife downed the mob before they could even take a few steps.

Anyone have the nightblade video remarked about earlier ? Or a video of them period ? Sounds interesting and would like to see it. Apologies if already posted..

I'll tell you where an EQ comparison would work - if the difficulty comes from bugged out bullshit. From mobs that randomly run off in the opposite direction and aggro the whole fucking universe. From regularly wiping to massive trains before realizing that stuck mob pets are transferring aggro to everything that wanders past them. From fights with mechanics that make absolutely no sense and can only be puzzled out through trial and error and accident. Quests that are so vague and ridiculous that it takes the entire combined playerbase months to figure out. Encounters that are 30 minutes long and are only difficult in the last minute. Trash with enormous HP pools that threatens to respawn on you before you can even clear it. Stupid as shit unfair mechanics like 30 second stuns or mass silence. Incredibly basic encounters where only a handful of people do anything differently than they would fighting a moss snake. 30 minutes standing around while people buff and meditate.

"Players have to work together sometimes" does not make me think of EQ. It makes me think of practically any coop game ever made.

mkopec_sl said:

Well what can I say. All mmos have been like this recently with their solo and quest shit. So either look for a challenge yourself, or chimp your way through it.

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I haven't played any MMO that was as pathetically trivial as this 15 levels in, with everything of equal fucking level getting one or two shot and the downtime from fighting stupidly being so practically nonexistent. Not in beta, and sure as hell not at release. That's all I wanted to say.

Kreugen_sl said:

I haven't played any MMO that was as pathetically trivial as this 15 levels in, with everything of equal fucking level getting one or two shot and the downtime from fighting stupidly being so practically nonexistent. Not in beta, and sure as hell not at release. That's all I wanted to say.

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Anecdotally, when I mentioned how trivially easy the game was in /zone I got a massive backlash from players saying how wrong I was, the game is hard as shit.

ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl said:

Anecdotally, when I mentioned how trivially easy the game was in /zone I got a massive backlash from players saying how wrong I was, the game is hard as shit.

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Everything about the game feels made for those people. Which I guess is seems funny coming from someone that enjoys WoW more than Everquest after playing an unhealthy amount of both. Except WoW had legit hard fights and EQ just had broken bullshit and excessively punishing time wasting stupidity. "Our game is hard because while you are trying to discover the mechanics of the fight, you can only attempt it once every hour and a half if we're generous, and once a week if we're assholes!"

I would really love it if the veteran instances were super hard. BC heroics, early on when gear sucked, was easily the best single group dungeons I have seen. However I can't really see any modern newly launched game putting out group content near that difficultly regardless of what some people say. Still that makes me more interested in the game just knowing they will be somewhat difficult.

ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl said:

Anecdotally, when I mentioned how trivially easy the game was in /zone I got a massive backlash from players saying how wrong I was, the game is hard as shit.

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Kids these days. When I was a youngin we LOST levels running naked a half hour back to our corpse and when we GOT there we had to sit and stare at a fake book on the screen for a half an hour while we regained mana. AND WE LIKED IT!