The Elder Scrolls Online

Rescorla_sl said:

Haven't had that one affect me yet. How often does it happen and are there steps you can follow to repeat it or is it completely random?

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I think this had something to do with having addons installed.

I could reproduce this bug after pressing E to do certain things, IE: Looting monsters/harvesting/turning in quests.

After which any client input aside from ALT or ESC would not function correctly, not even left or right click or any numpad functions.

Additionally, when using waystones or initiating trades with someone, my mouse would revert to "Aim" mode when the window popped up. Got annoying, reload UI fixed it for about 2 minutes then my inputs would get bugged again.

I made it a habit to just press escape twice after looting a monster every time.

Caliane_sl said:

I don't really see how that is much of a problem. did we not all bitch about how the 1-10 experience sucked balls?

1-17 being solid does buy them 3 months for the casual gamers.
Having that for launch IS the most important thing. and I fail to see how we can criticize them for it.

Getting the rest of the game solid within those 3 months after that 3 month period however is the next challenge and requirement.

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Making sure your initial introduction of a product is "Good" or "Passable" while knowing the rest of the content is less than that is widely considered as a bait and switch, or false marketing.

In some cases this business model is illegal, in this case, it's subjectively voluntary.

It's the same as a fat girl putting up pictures of when she was skinnier on her online dating profile, just in hopes of hooking a sucker that falls for the deception.

TL;DR: Paul Sage is a fat guy putting up pictures of when he was skinnier, in hopes of getting a date. And in this case that date is Millions of dollars and validity of his career.

If there was a way for me to buy this game from Brian Wheeler and not Paul Sage, I would.

Tell me I'm wrong.

but what if she is doing p90x?

Caliane_sl said:

but what if she is doing p90x?

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I wish this game was on the p90x routine, but it's kind of just putting on make-up at this piont in order to make the sale.

Don't get me wrong, I love fat women, I love to cook for them, give them nice things etc.
but when they try to pass as being something their not it's just disappointing.

It's simply discouraging when you sign up for a marathon or go on adventures in the wilderness only to end up just getting held back due to physical limitations and being out of shape in general.

Vitality_sl said:

Making sure your initial introduction of a product is "Good" or "Passable" while knowing the rest of the content is less than that is widely considered as a bait and switch, or false marketing.

In some cases this business model is illegal, in this case, it's subjectively voluntary.

It's the same as a fat girl putting up pictures of when she was skinnier on her online dating profile, just in hopes of hooking a sucker that falls for the deception.

TL;DR: Paul Sage is a fat guy putting up pictures of when he was skinnier, in hopes of getting a date. And in this case that date is Millions of dollars and validity of his career.

If there was a way for me to buy this game from Brian Wheeler and not Paul Sage, I would.

Tell me I'm wrong.

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You forgot to switch accounts before posting this.

Gecko_sl said:

You forgot to switch accounts before posting this.

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Ut's fking right though, about Sage, shit's pretty apparent in the patch notes.

I'll turn the hate off, figured I'd express a little disappointment first.

Vitality_sl said:

Making sure your initial introduction of a product is "Good" or "Passable"while knowing the rest of the content is less than thatis widely considered as a bait and switch, or false marketing.

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That underlined part is important, and considering the only verification of that is Utnayan... I'm not ready to believe it's accurate.

mrmoneda_sl said:

That underlined part is important, and considering the only verification of that is Utnayan... I'm not ready to believe it's accurate.

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How about the entire pve endgame (adventure zones) still being under NDA and admittedly not going to be in at launch and as far as I can tell not even on the CB test server. I don't think that qualifies as Utnayan-Only verification.

How about Cyrodil servers unable to handle maximum-capacity load.

How about the Copy pasted + Make-up pve experience

How about Gold/Loot/XP/Hr while questing being nearly 50% slower than just grinding equal level mobs.

How about the arbitrary stat caps in a very quick and dirty balance pass?

I can stretch this list as long I need to make this point.

Vitality_sl said:

How about the arbitrary stat caps in a very quick and dirty balance pass?

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Most of things you mentioned will just get ironed out in the first couple of months but this one, general balancing, is really tough to do in a live game because it impacts the choices existing players have already invested in. That stat capping thing is such a cheap and dirty MMO trick, and the stats nerds are so good at gaming stuff like that, that it is going to present a real problem.

Along those lines, lets say I want to PvP as a Ranged DPS sorc... wouldn't I go orc and heavy armor for survivability knowing I can cap the Magika stat without much effort as I level up?

I remember some game I played at some point had this sort of theory where you put all your initial gains into things you would not be able to level later because of stat caps.

Vitality_sl said:

How about Gold/Loot/XP/Hr while questing being nearly 50% slower than just grinding equal level mobs.

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Do you have proof of this, besides your very own small testing and even your own testing didn't not have very hard numbers.

Even if grinding was more efficient, I'm not sure I would care, as you would miss out on a lot of skill points and would be missing all the guild skills. I'd actually be quite fine if grinding was slightly better in regards to pure exp/hr then questing, more options is a good thing.

Cinge_sl said:

Do you have proof of this, besides your very own small testing and even your own testing didn't not have very hard numbers.

Even if grinding was more efficient, I'm not sure I would care, as you would miss out on a lot of skill points and would be missing all the guild skills. I'd actually be quite fine if grinding was slightly better in regards to pure exp/hr then questing, more options is a good thing.

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I'll do more testing in the next event, and I'll do a VOD on my twitch channel to reference here as proof.

In the mean time, I'm fairly certain there were atleast a couple who agreed with my findings since most of us were forced to grind when the story quests were uncompletable.

So if you could find proof in the lack of disagreement I'd appreciate it until I can provide a video.

PS: I also noted that, for every level done with my method there was atleast 25 minutes available to search for skyshards and skillpoint dungeons OR complete a skill point awarding quest, compared to the leveling time a quester took to get on average 80% of his level.

The travel time and multi-tiered (non-xp awarding) nature of their quests is what accounts for this disparity.

Vitality_sl said:

How about the entire pve endgame (adventure zones) still being under NDA and admittedly not going to be in at launch and as far as I can tell not even on the CB test server. I don't think that qualifies as Utnayan-Only verification.

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The fact that they haven't allowed you to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'd heard about a group that visited the offices of the dev team and got to see an area that the PTS players didn't get to see, but I didn't take that as proof of anything either. Since then we've come to know of it as Craglorn, the adventure zone. I currently don't care whether it's in at launch or 3 weeks after.

Vitality_sl said:

How about Cyrodil servers unable to handle maximum-capacity load.

How about the Copy pasted + Make-up pve experience

How about Gold/Loot/XP/Hr while questing being nearly 50% slower than just grinding equal level mobs.

How about the arbitrary stat caps in a very quick and dirty balance pass?

I can stretch this list as long I need to make this point.

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This list can be as long as you wish, none of it is proof of being purposefully disingenuous nor of how the game will be when it launches (nor of how the game even is now, considering some of what you listed is unverified).

mrmoneda_sl said:

The fact that they haven't allowed you to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'd heard about a group that visited the offices of the dev team and got to see an area that the PTS players didn't get to see, but I didn't take that as proof of anything either. Since then we've come to know of it as Craglorn, the adventure zone. I currently don't care whether it's in at launch or 3 weeks after.

This list can be as long as you wish, none of it is proof of being purposefully disingenuous nor of how the game will be when it launches (nor of how the game even is now, considering some of what you listed is unverified).

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I would absolutely love to be proven wrong on these topics.

This game is a partially developed forest, the trees are tallest in the front so we are given the appearance of lushness, we do not have any choices on how we enter this forest because there's a gate at the front.

What we find in the center of the forest is anyone's guess because it's all just promised content.

I can tell you though that Cyrodil, which isn't even a part of this proverbial forest, is a gold mine filled with fun, it just requires you to be level 10 to magically teleport to. I'll shill cyrodil as hard as I can.

I just hope hope hope they solve their capacity issues. Expanded content or not, Cyrodil is ESO.

And please please please, don't base your purchase of this game on Promised Content.

mrmoneda_sl said:

The fact that they haven't allowed you to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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That's true, but what it DOES say with less than 30 days left to go is that they don't have any confidence in it whatsoever.

I mean, it's not like they are holding it a secret so that when they reveal it, it knocks everyone's socks off with it's awesomeness. This is pretty much what TOR did except even TOR showed their buggy dungeons in previews a lot more right before launch. That's not a good sign at all when your company is considerably less forthcoming than EA was.

Vitality_sl said:

I just hope hope hope they solve their capacity issues. Expanded content or not, Cyrodil is ESO.

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This all day. I'm getting tired of reading that 'Oh no, there's PvE in ESO so it's not a PvP game' by lemmingmonkies. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the PvP can get really good or even is right now, but I wish they'd stop trying to sell me on the PvE angle when it appears it's one of the weakest parts of the game.
I just don't know why they aren't being honest about what the game is ultimately about... you're only going to hurt yourself in the industry when all the PvEer's leave in a month or two after hitting that sooper-sekrit PTS endgame.

mrmoneda_sl said:

The fact that they haven't allowed you to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'd heard about a group that visited the offices of the dev team and got to see an area that the PTS players didn't get to see, but I didn't take that as proof of anything either. Since then we've come to know of it as Craglorn, the adventure zone. I currently don't care whether it's in at launch or 3 weeks after.

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In January timeframe, Zenimax sent out an open invitation to all closed beta testers to participate in a focus group demonstration of adventure zones. The only requirement was that you physically had to attend the demonstration at their offices in Baltimore. The demonstration was under NDA but the closed beta testers were allowed to give their general impression on the closed beta forums. The couple of testers who attended all said the same thing: if you like endgame PVE raiding in MMOs, you will probably like adventure zones.

Vitality_sl said:

Utnayan's inside man is gaining more and more credibility each time they release patchnotes that indicate the majority of Zeni's resources are allocated to the 1-17 content.
(

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Is there anyone else here besides Vitality that believes Utnayan really does have an inside source working at Zenimax?

Vitality_sl said:

And please please please, don't base your purchase of this game on Promised Content.

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Never that.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

That's true, but what it DOES say with less than 30 days left to go is that they don't have any confidence in it whatsoever.

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The only thing I'm willing to presume about unrevealed content is that it isn't finished. Also,I don't think as many people are as lost on what the focus of TESO is as others believe.


Video of the post-patch 0.181 new character experience.

Rescorla_sl said:

Is there anyone else here besides Vitality that believes Utnayan really does have an inside source working at Zenimax?

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Maybe I should have re-phrased my point to be more defenisble against you picking it apart.

Utnayan posted an excerpt from a letter which was made out to be from someone inside at Zenimax. In that letter it outlined how Focused the head of development was on the tutorial experience, and how he was sacrificing resources from more substantial aspects of the game in order to make sure the inital content was as good as it could be.

Sharing clear frustration with the chokehold on the creative team.

What I "Meant" to say (and this is just for you Rescorla, as you seem to be the only person who needs it) was that this letter Utnayan previously posted, is gaining credibility every time we read these patch notes and experience the direction this game is being developed in.

That is all. If you wish to make it more than that. Do so, but, do so at the cost of your own credibility.

Alternatively, I'd love for you to prove me wrong on all of the statements I made today. Just remember: proving something requires Proof, not opinion or promises.

New player experience is the most important part of all MMORPGs. It's not really in dispute.

Quaid_sl said:

New player experience is the most important part of all MMORPGs. It's not really in dispute.

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I'll try and make what you said constructive:

I agree, the new player experience is an important selling point for most games.

Unfortunately as it stands, and this can be seen in the focus of the patch notes recently shown, they're sacrificing the strength of the HEART of the game, for it's face (New player experience).

Sure a pretty face sells short term, but the heart is what keeps people around long term.

Would you agree to this?

If yes, then, do you also agree that the design focus currently is not centered on keeping people around long term?

If no, then, do you plan on subbing to this game based on your current experience?

Personally: I'm not looking for a cheap date, or cheap thrills, or one night stands with this game. That's why I gamed with PRX this last weekend, I played this game PRX's way (in pvp and world bosses atleast) and that sold me.

I would NOT have purchased this game based on this games Face (New player experience) and I would NEVER recommend purchasing a game based on your initial impression of it's new player experience.

No one wants to buy a gorgeous cake only to find out the center is pickles. Unless you like pickles in cake, in which case I'll file for a restraining order. :-D