The Elder Scrolls Online

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,558
7,866
What is the minimum number of players required before it officially becomes a raid?

The most fun raid I ever had in a MMO was Karazhan in WoW and that was a 10 man.
Stop being intentionally obtuse. You rail against Ut and then pull shit like this out of your ass.

A raid zone has less to do with number of players, and more to do with how the whole thing plays. Fewer more intricate encounters that require planning, teamwork, & execution, but give the best rewards.

What they described was a zone with multi-group time trials. Leaderboards? Wtf is this, Mario Kart?
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,025
2,101
Anyone know how accurate these numbers are? 157,000 USA pre-orders seems way too low.

USA Pre-Order Chart - VGChartz
Not accurate at all.

VGchartz has always been retail only, doesn't count digital or places like amazon/gmg iirc. From what I remember SWTOR had like 500k on that thing, yet sold like 1.5m or something.

It's decent for console numbers, since a lot of those purchases are still done @ retail stores.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Stop being intentionally obtuse. You rail against Ut and then pull shit like this out of your ass.

A raid zone has less to do with number of players, and more to do with how the whole thing plays. Fewer more intricate encounters that require planning, teamwork, & execution, but give the best rewards.

What they described was a zone with multi-group time trials. Leaderboards? Wtf is this, Mario Kart?
Umm, did you actually read it? An AZ is a zone designed for a 4 man group but inside the AZ are portals to instanced 12 man raid content.
 

Jackdaddio_sl

shitlord
727
0
My way I will want to play is after a couple weeks be able to log into Cyr megaserver whenever I want to queue up for PVP.
Couple of weeks? It takes two/three days maximum for even the most cursory of leveling experiences to hit Level 10 for Cyro.

My question is what happens AFTER that Headstart when some/most of the people who have done their Headstart Overflow burn in that time log in for the general Launch, and now they can't get in Cyro. after three days, to PvP? What happens to guilds like PRX if 1/3, 1/4, 1/2 are qualified but simply can't get into the zone? Or worse, what happens to those guilds that aren't half as good as PRX will be and they are missing that same number and try to compete in there?

Also, didn't/aren't they giving people the chance to completely skip the low level starting zones and go right to Cryo or something? I remember reading something about that being an option a few weeks back after all the bugginess. If so, what if everyone decides"Fuck this. I'm skipping the low shit, I'll come back to it in a few weeks" and then it's logjam time?
 

esloan_sl

shitlord
88
0
Yep. The rumors about it being a raid-zone and whatnot are gone: it's a pure max level dungeon, but outdoor (original!).

The Trials sound like Challenge mode dungeons on steroids (and for 3 groups). Not raids; there doesn't appear to be anything gained except bragging rights for now. I supposed they'll get around adding cosmetic shit gotten from points during Trials.
I don't know AZs sound OK. If its a full zone or around the same size and filled with everything a normal zone is, I could have fun with that. I loved grinding elite mobs in the open world in WoW (before they nerfed them) with a group. This sounds like that and more. Grind some mobs, do some quests and even some dungeons, all tuned for a group? I'm down for that. Its not revolutionary, in fact its more old school, but it has more potential than just a standard dungeon.

I also read that description as the AZ is not instanced only to your group but more open world with multiple groups. In the middle of the AZ description they mention delves, which are instanced to your group, why would they specifically mention that delves were instanced if the entire AZ was already instanced?
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,025
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The only glimmer of hope I saw for the AZ was that he equated it to a pve zone. If it's that actual size or even half of that and you run around doing w/e you want(don't have to follow 1 set hallway) then it's already better then dungeons. Time will tell though.

Bad part about that though if true and depending on how big it is, is time requirement to do it or will it turn into where people just find out what is easiest, go kill it then be done, leaving the rest uncompleted.
 

Vitality

HUSTLE
5,808
30
The only glimmer of hope I saw for the AZ was that he equated it to a pve zone. If it's that actual size or even half of that and you run around doing w/e you want(don't have to follow 1 set hallway) then it's already better then dungeons. Time will tell though.

Bad part about that though if true and depending on how big it is, is time requirement to do it or will it turn into where people just find out what is easiest, go kill it then be done, leaving the rest uncompleted.
Also factor in replayability, lockout timers etc.

Most of the dungeons up to 50 are only really worthwhile to do once for the skill point. I hope this value-set isn't carried over into the vr10 stuff.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
I don't know AZs sound OK. If its a full zone or around the same size and filled with everything a normal zone is, I could have fun with that. I loved grinding elite mobs in the open world in WoW (before they nerfed them) with a group. This sounds like that and more. Grind some mobs, do some quests and even some dungeons, all tuned for a group? I'm down for that. Its not revolutionary, in fact its more old school, but it has more potential than just a standard dungeon.

I also read that description as the AZ is not instanced only to your group but more open world with multiple groups. In the middle of the AZ description they mention delves, which are instanced to your group, why would they specifically mention that delves were instanced if the entire AZ was already instanced?
The AZ itself isn't instanced. A delve is what everyone else refers to as a torch dungeon in the regular zones. Those are instanced. The 12 man raid trials are instanced as well.
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,025
2,101
My question is what happens AFTER that Headstart when some/most of the people who have done their Headstart Overflow burn in that time log in for the general Launch, and now they can't get in Cyro. after three days, to PvP? What happens to guilds like PRX if 1/3, 1/4, 1/2 are qualified but simply can't get into the zone? Or worse, what happens to those guilds that aren't half as good as PRX will be and they are missing that same number and try to compete in there?
You wait in queue(and almost guaranteed there will be one) if you want to pvp and pray people who just want to pve just go to the overflow instead of waiting. It's going to happen, and I am going to laugh when I see people rage about queues. Thankfully this usually only last a few days into launch and the concurrent numbers drop like a rock afterwards.

Also factor in replayability, lockout timers etc.

Most of the dungeons up to 50 are only really worthwhile to do once for the skill point. I hope this value-set isn't carried over into the vr10 stuff.
The loot can be decent to fill in gaps and supplement until crafted. I know crafting has the best stuff, but its going to take a while for crafting to make purple/orange for people.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,558
7,866
Umm, did you actually read it? An AZ is a zone designed for a 4 man group but inside the AZ are portals to instanced 12 man raid content.
And this is why people think you are a shill.


In aTrial, you will have a limited number of resurrections, known as a Soul Reservoir. Too many resurrections mean that you have failed thetrial. It takes a lot of coordination to survive aTrial. The enemies you face in aTrialwill be difficult, while the surroundings are some of the most beautiful places in ESO. Provided you do survive and make it to the end of aTrial, your group might make it to theleaderboard.Trialshave arunning clockand mistakes, including deaths, can add atime penalty. Turn in a greattime, however, and you might make it to the top of theleaderboard. If you fail, your group canrestart and try again.


Is it more clear for you now?
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
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I wonder if the non-instanced zone will have worthwhile and repeatable content or if it'll just be a more difficult zone you do once and then repeat instances.
 

esloan_sl

shitlord
88
0
The AZ itself isn't instanced. A delve is what everyone else refers to as a torch dungeon in the regular zones. Those are instanced. The 12 man raid trials are instanced as well.
Yes, I assumed trials were instanced. I don't know, I actually like the idea of AZs. Its a combination of open world group PvE and instanced group PvE. I like that. Its a nod to the MMO past. Maybe we will a see old school mob camping. Lol
 

Felmega_sl

shitlord
563
1
If you like PvP you should get more info about PvP and how it works in MMOs : first of all, gutting API won't prevent people from cheating, exploiting and doing bad things. There already is abot for TESO, and it's safe to assume more will come, API or not. Second, a player "running bots" doesn't really mean anything, PvP wise. Are we talking about scripts ? Macros ? "Smart" scripts that would trigger some action (i.e. purging the enemy as soon as he got buffs on him) would turn really shitty, especially when you have GCDs to to deal with. It wouldn't give a solid advantage in PvP, since you can't really hard theorycraft any encounter and you'd spend more time dealing with your scripts than actual fighting. And about macros, with nowadays keyboards you can macro a lot of stuff, again API or not.

Third, ZOS vision would be quite okay if TESOs UI would be functional, but it's not. You have status bars at the bottom of your screen, action at the middle, enemy / ally status bars at the top of the screen. If you do serious PvP you should know it's quite tedious having too much space between UI elements, your eyes would become tired very fast and you'll see yourself having to move your head up and down to "see" the different UI elements. At least we should be able to move the frames. Let's see how it really works if you want optimal performance and eye comfort :

60434eb7904b1ee665bc1e2ed6cc1.jpg


Red circle : vital informations zone (where critical stuff happens).
Blue square : eye comfort zone (which would vary regarding your screen's height and size).
Green thing : Head-up Display (HUD) zone, optimal eye comfort and vital UI informations).

Now regarding TESO's UI, having to raise your head / eyes each time to check whatever debuff / buff your enemy is on, is really tedious. Checking your ability bar, your status bars and your enemy's target frame requires 3 eye "moves", where in my screenshot it requires none. Keep sieges wise, you'll never see a thing, you'll spend your time jumping from one UI element to another, and ZOS bar status requires you to check the bar for seconds to see what's going on, instead of having a icon which can be seen in a fraction of second. Some people, let's call them the expert players, would like to minmax their user interface as well. They'd like a combat log, moving frames, displaying useful information to get the best of their gameplay. Saying "let's gut the API otherwise people will cheat and run bots" it like saying "let's stop waste management because the Mafia uses it to launder money". I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a world of shit just because some people don't follow the rules.
I dont agree with everything you say but this is a legit post. Some of your concerns are worthy of consideration. I say to you, the game has not even released yet. More data and statistics will be collected as time passes. Perhaps the devs will change their minds at some time. Control of the UI is clearly a battle between the devs and the UI community and and it may come to be that eventually the devs cant hold back the loud cries from the players who want to mod the game.

On another note, there seems to be two sides in this argument. One side wants more information in order to make the game more technical. The other side doesnt care and heres why, they are playing for immersion, and a cluttered or ugly UI hurts immersion and takes away from the intended look of the game. Now, as a minMaxer or achiever gamer, that might strike you as odd or downright stupid, (who plays for immersion??) but its a fact.

This whole discussion about the UI and modding is a big distraction. I'd rather get into discussions about Adventure Zones, or ideas to make PvP and Cyr better/funner. Guys, it's a game, were supposed to enjoying this, haha. Some of the lames in this thread act like they are personally affected by design divisions. Gimme a break! All this just throws shade on real discussion.

Viva Chat Bubbles!
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
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I dont agree with everything you say but this is a legit post. Some of your concerns are worthy of consideration. I say to you, the game has not even released yet. More data and statistics will be collected as time passes. Perhaps the devs will change their minds at some time. Control of the UI is clearly a battle between the devs and the UI community and and it may come to be that eventually the devs cant hold back the loud cries from the players who want to mod the game.

On another note, there seems to be two sides in this argument. One side wants more information in order to make the game more technical. The other side doesnt care and heres why, they are playing for immersion, and a cluttered or ugly UI hurts immersion and takes away from the intended look of the game. Now, as a minMaxer or achiever gamer, that might strike you as odd or downright stupid, (who plays for immersion??) but its a fact.

This whole discussion about the UI and modding is a big distraction. I'd rather get into discussions about Adventure Zones, or ideas to make PvP and Cyr better/funner. Guys, it's a game, were supposed to enjoying this, haha. Some of the lames in this thread act like they are personally affected by design divisions. Gimme a break! All this just throws shade on real discussion.

Viva Chat Bubbles!
What level are you on the PTS?
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,025
2,101
I wonder if the non-instanced zone will have worthwhile and repeatable content or if it'll just be a more difficult zone you do once and then repeat instances.
What non-instanced zone?

Oh nvm, the AZ is actually a zone and the bosses/skyshard are instanced off. Will be interesting how it all plays out. Sounds like the non-instance stuff will have things to do also but they instance enough off so that everything can't be permanently camped.
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,025
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The adventure zones support multiple groups in each instance, so I'm calling them non-instanced compared to the torch dungeons that only support one group. Is this wrong?
Sounds right, I missed the part where he talkd about the "Delves" being instanced off and contain a boss/skyhsard.



You know this game could go a lot further if they added a AZ that had pvp enabled and you let the factions fight over bosses/events/objectives.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
And this is why people think you are a shill.


In aTrial, you will have a limited number of resurrections, known as a Soul Reservoir. Too many resurrections mean that you have failed thetrial. It takes a lot of coordination to survive aTrial. The enemies you face in aTrialwill be difficult, while the surroundings are some of the most beautiful places in ESO. Provided you do survive and make it to the end of aTrial, your group might make it to theleaderboard.Trialshave arunning clockand mistakes, including deaths, can add atime penalty. Turn in a greattime, however, and you might make it to the top of theleaderboard. If you fail, your group canrestart and try again.


Is it more clear for you now?
How does having better reading comprehension skills make me a shill?

You are allowing yourself to get all hung up on semantics. Trials are 12 man PVE raids. Period. End of Story. In addition to traditional MMO raid mechanics, one twist TESO is adding is that the raid is timed. Now the hardcore raiding guilds can swing their epeen by having their clear time posted for the entire world to see. The fact that there is a leaderboard ranking clear times doesn't change the fact it is still fundamentally a 12 man PVE raid.
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I hated calling WoWs 10 man content raids(and they are only 12 here because of group size). Imo a raid is 30 people or more.