In software development, its not Beta when the software is not yet feature complete. TESO is still early Alpha at best, but that doesn't stop their marketing team from just making shit up as they go along.
The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
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Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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GW2 also released during the last third of August and not in November. That aside I am firmly in the "will be like TOR" camp. And I had high hopes for TOR before the betas. This one I'm only following through this thread and mostly for amusement.
Bondurant
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Unfortunately we're not really into "software development"', we're into "AAA MMO videogame development featuring a major IP". You can't really make different business models kiss themselves until they make babies. Stating TESO is in "early alpha" is like saying "sandwich is in early alpha" when the doner guy is pouring ketchup on your kebab + fries lunch.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Yes. Written by Matt Firor.
He isn't in charge of the project. He is in charge of being president of a company. You realize the difference correct? If I wanted to go back to his design ideas before in DAOC, I would first need to look at who was responsible for what. I do know that the game almost didn't ship, and Firor wasn't the one that pulled it out of the fire. Denton was. I also know that once he started an executive position, DAOC took a major shit. I also see patterns repeating themselves. I would like to have an example of any game that has been in development for 5+ years trying to get Aggro implemented fully and have the staple of it's end game (RvR) not even being close to implemented in the game as stated by Tesotester. But I would also love for you to tell me how any president of a creative company responsible for launching a popular IP MMORPG says the following:
"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features."
At the same time, CCP just merged an Online FPS portion of their game on a completely different platform to work in tandem with their space based MMORPG on the PC and having the two seamlessly interact in real time.
Which also led to the comment everyone else in the industry was thinking when they read Firor state it.
"Touborg said that he didn't agree with the statement, "and if I ever said that, Jon should fire me."
In the end, Matt Firor is terrible for the advancement of the genre, terrible in this space as a result, and should do something else if he thinks all these games will be are feature copies of which he will never drive towards too.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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With that said, let's take a hard look at the Dark Magic abilities and it's CC power.
Would you like to start the discussion of the actual game now? I took one look at this and facepalmed.
Oh wait, it gets better. (And longer)
It seems the impact of CC will be back to Pre-Shrouded Isles days. I know that this will be tuned heavily, but the fact that it is like this as it stands with so few ranks in between in the first 3 is fairly ridiculous. Especially without CD's.
Would you like to start the discussion of the actual game now? I took one look at this and facepalmed.
Oh wait, it gets better. (And longer)
It's Amateur hour over there.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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Who doesn't love getting stun locked indefinitely until they're dead? Especially in PVP in MMOs. I know that certainly wasn't the single most rage inducing aspect of every MMO PVP experience ever. No sirree.
Anyway, look, I love Bethesda games, but that isn't because they're great or even good. Most of them are disastrously coded Frankenstein monsters that barely lumber along until 2 years of patches and DLC are put out to fix them, not to mention mods from the community which help salve the damage. I know a separate team is working on the MMO, but I have zero confidence Bethesda can pull this off where other companies that are better and more capable, and more professional, have failed or fallen short. Bethesda are like the local home team in a way, even though they've gotten far too big for their britches, I've always loved them as an East Coast development company at least tangentially from the "old days" (I can still remember those old Elder Scrolls Arena boxes on the Babbages store shelves in like 1993 or whatever) and we all love rooting for an underdog....
But they have no experience in this arena, and aren't talented enough to pull it off successfully. Their quality control processes alone should be proof of that to anyone with half a brain and any experience with their games over the past decade and a half.
Anyway, look, I love Bethesda games, but that isn't because they're great or even good. Most of them are disastrously coded Frankenstein monsters that barely lumber along until 2 years of patches and DLC are put out to fix them, not to mention mods from the community which help salve the damage. I know a separate team is working on the MMO, but I have zero confidence Bethesda can pull this off where other companies that are better and more capable, and more professional, have failed or fallen short. Bethesda are like the local home team in a way, even though they've gotten far too big for their britches, I've always loved them as an East Coast development company at least tangentially from the "old days" (I can still remember those old Elder Scrolls Arena boxes on the Babbages store shelves in like 1993 or whatever) and we all love rooting for an underdog....
But they have no experience in this arena, and aren't talented enough to pull it off successfully. Their quality control processes alone should be proof of that to anyone with half a brain and any experience with their games over the past decade and a half.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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I know its a separate team, man, I just don't think it matters, in fact I'd say that makes it even more likely the game won't be very good. They've got a new team with some old Bethesda guys and some new hires from some old MMOs that didn't do very well making an MMO that doesn't really match up with the core material. A new team led by people who generally, game after game, give us very fun, playable games, but games that are terminally bug ridden messes on launch, often saved mostly by the community of dedicated modders that have been built up around their titles.
Its like a fish out of water, no matter how much money and "new" talent they throw at it, I just think the cards are massively stacked against Bethesda in particular succeeding at this task. And I like Bethesda. They're like the underdogs to me a little, and the only really long term East Coast game developers I can recall lasting this long, I've always been a fan of them. I want them to succeed. I just don't see it happening.
Its like a fish out of water, no matter how much money and "new" talent they throw at it, I just think the cards are massively stacked against Bethesda in particular succeeding at this task. And I like Bethesda. They're like the underdogs to me a little, and the only really long term East Coast game developers I can recall lasting this long, I've always been a fan of them. I want them to succeed. I just don't see it happening.
Blackwulf
N00b
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Hold on, everyone, Ut found a skill list on Betacake and now understands the design philosophy behind all the pvp in this game. I mean, I'm sure there won't be counter measures to CC, right? There won't be resists built into certain skill lines or gear, either, I'm sure. Nope! It's back to good old stun lock combat!
One more time, Ut - if Firor is responsible for every bad move made at Mythic, and none of the good ideas, why is he the only one of the three to land a decent job? Also stop this nonsense of him being the president, and presidents don't need to have good ideas. Give me a fucking break! You blame him for producing TOA, but he can't take credit for being a producer in his new gig? Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Here's what normal, sane people do: Wait until he makes a game that sucks, then judge him for it. It hasn't happened yet, budsky. Sorry you got shot down when you interviewed over there, but you don't need to carry a grudge on the forums for ten years. If TESO is awful, I will call him out on it, just as I did to Mark Jacobs when he fucked up on WAR. Until then, he can have my benefit of the doubt.
Blackwulf
N00b
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Pyksel
Rasterizing . . .
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Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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What exactly do you think a president of a developer house does by chance? Say it with me, he isn't a producer in his new gig. He is the President. Please tell me you know the difference....
He did. ToA. He also has two failed companies in between.
There is no way I would leave Minnesota. Especially for.... Maryland.
We could have a discussion about the lead gameplay designer that came from Perpetual. And made this...
https://register.perfectworld.com/sto_splashB
CC might be an issue later. Its unknown since there is no PVP in right now. No information is available on diminishing returns or immunity timers either nor do we know if the skills will behave exactly the same in PVP as they do in PVE.
What I do know is that you blow through mana really fast using those abilities. I've tried some CC builds in the dungeons and they aren't terribly effective when compared to the dps you could be doing as blowing all your mana really fucks up your dps rotation since you then only have stamina and nothing to alternate to keep the pools balanced.
You aren't going to lock people down long aside from Rune Prison which might as well be a form of sheep like in World of Warcraft.
Other classes have gap closers, pulls and cleanses. It will be interesting when testing starts and we get a look at what is planned but I'm not convinced people are going to be blowing all their load on fairly short CC. Who knows what will happen if group sizes change or something like that.
I think people expecting to light shit up from ranged aren't going to be happy. You can do some dps like that but if you're a mage using a destro staff at range to kill stuff you'll be an unhappy camper compared to what you can do with the other melee weapons. Get out of pussyville if you want to contribute some real dps.
What I do know is that you blow through mana really fast using those abilities. I've tried some CC builds in the dungeons and they aren't terribly effective when compared to the dps you could be doing as blowing all your mana really fucks up your dps rotation since you then only have stamina and nothing to alternate to keep the pools balanced.
You aren't going to lock people down long aside from Rune Prison which might as well be a form of sheep like in World of Warcraft.
Other classes have gap closers, pulls and cleanses. It will be interesting when testing starts and we get a look at what is planned but I'm not convinced people are going to be blowing all their load on fairly short CC. Who knows what will happen if group sizes change or something like that.
I think people expecting to light shit up from ranged aren't going to be happy. You can do some dps like that but if you're a mage using a destro staff at range to kill stuff you'll be an unhappy camper compared to what you can do with the other melee weapons. Get out of pussyville if you want to contribute some real dps.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
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You're only making me hate this game more with every post. They've taken a game franchise I love, ripped the heart and soul of it out and filled the empty corpse with the liquified remains of the dozens of dead rehashed MMOs that have come before. This game never should have made it past the initial proposal except the exec's started seeing WoW sized dollar signs and totally failed to understand what has made the Elder Scrolls games great in the past.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Interesting. If cc is truly resource intensive then that could be an effective way to keep it from overpowering the game. If their PvP RvR is anything like advertised (or even half assed), then it could still be better than the current alternatives.
Wish they'd hurry up and test the PvP. This PvE stuff doesn't matter to me much. The best or worst PvE in mmo's is all the same to me. Don't understand how people can get so worked up about it.
seriously teso, at this point, all talking is over. either show us some of the "jesus patch" vids which completely transformed the game into the second coming, or gtfo. the last time i heard someone talk about the jesus patch that was going to change everything and fix everything all at once, it was brad talking about vanguard. i was beta testing the game at the time, and even up to a few days before release, they were talking about the miracle patch. we all know how that turned out. i'm beginning to believe that TESO is nothing more than VG 2.0 (and i honestly doubt it will even be as polished or as fun as that train wreck of a game was).