The Elder Scrolls Online

Lost Ranger_sl

shitlord
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The problem is that a large alliance that is extremely coordinated will capture the map pretty fast. They won't be losing it to a small group either. People said similar things when GW2 launched and it was total domination. If a group captured something it was just taken back a few minutes later. Keeps didn't fall if a large guild/alliance didn't want it to. I like the idea of a longer campaign, and wouldn't mind seeing it around the 30 day mark. Sitting at 90 though just means that 89 of those days are going to be people watching AD sit on the throne.
tongue.png
 

Zalere

N00b
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Does anyone know which faction the goons are going to be? Or are they doing like Reddit and having a guild on all 3? I don't want to be on the same faction with GS.
 

Vitality

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No, I am not purchasing this game. (Whoever asked) If I knew that the server was going to stabilize and PvP was an option from level 1, I would maybe go through some RvR for kicks for a couple weeks and cancel the sub before getting hit for another month just to see what all this PRX stuff is about.
Bummer, you're missing out on some serious fun. I was pretty enthralled with the group PRX had setup this past weekend. Outnumbered, sneaking behind enemy lines, disrupting reinforcements etc. Was a blast.
 

Utnayan

I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
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Bummer, you're missing out on some serious fun. I was pretty enthralled with the group PRX had setup this past weekend. Outnumbered, sneaking behind enemy lines, disrupting reinforcements etc. Was a blast.
I am sure it is. They did some fun things in GW2 as well. I have never been a part of a coordinated PvP guild before which dominates.

If they clean up the servers it's always an option if it goes on a decent sale again. The main things are combat issues, server issues, and needing to get to level 10. If those three vanished I would probably be giving it a shot to see how PRX works.
 

signati_sl

shitlord
102
0
There's one aspect of PvP that I've tried to talk about before, but it got overlooked. It's something that will become increasingly important over time.

Patch 0.18 increased the experience gained by killing players. Those who don't see why that's significant probably haven't done the "Kill 20 Enemy Players" quest from the mission boards. Every kill performed by your group counts toward that quest; you get credit for your group's kills and by extension, you get experience.

Prior to 0.18, people who leveled in PvP could grow to significant power specifically because it was slower. In ESO, you need skills to advance so that you can unlock later abilities, and the base level for skills help to determine their effectiveness (along with your level). The effect this will have on the endgame is that players at level 50 with significantly advanced skills will be significantly more powerful than those who reach level 50 by experience alone.

Player kills do not advance skills. Turning in quests is all that does that.

This means that while PvE can be ignored in favor of PvP battles, it will result in a gimped character in the long run. Those who run repeatable quests that eventually offer meager experience but still advance skills will grow to be the most powerful. Simply put, PvE in some capacity is required for satisfactory advancement.

It's not an issue worthy of debate or concern, but one that people need to be aware of. The solution for PvP guilds already exists in Cyrodiil; the repeatable quests I mentioned before. The cities of Cyrodiil are full of these. I've repeated several from a NPC in Cheydinhal. The thing that is worthy of debate or concern is just how boring it will get to be farming the same repeatables over and over in order to keep skills up. If you live in Cyrodiil, then you will have no choice.

That should be the way to maximize skills with level, but more entertaining PvE will involve doing more outside of Cyrodiil. That also may help to maximize skills with level because there are so many quests that it doesn't take very long to reach a point where most quests in a zone are below level. So, the most powerful endgame characters will be grinders, completionists, and those who really soak in all the available stories. Those who focus on kicking but in PvP and dominate early on will gradually become less worthy opponents.

Players focusing on PvP need to be aware of this. I hope that there are people on PTS doing regression on skill advancement and xp with some kind of logging if it's to be min-maxxed (despite that going against the spirit of this game) because PvP guilds who commit to larger population campaigns will need to manage this in their expectations of members and there may be times when giving up hours in Cyrodiil is costly.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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The problem is that a large alliance that is extremely coordinated will capture the map pretty fast. They won't be losing it to a small group either. People said similar things when GW2 launched and it was total domination.
Yep. The viability of small group PVP is all dependent on the game mechanics. Specifically how AE works.

In games like GW2 where the AE is either capped at a low number of people (5) or the damage is evenly distributed among everyone it hits it's very hard to fight large masses of players even if they're disorganized. In GW2 specifically the AE damage/debuffing was crippled but the AE healing/buffing was not. That's why stacking on the door worked well unless siege weapons were in play (which had unmitigated AE damage).

All AE damage should do significant damage to ALL players it hits. And if you're going to have a class with good CC they should have great single-target CC options and moderate AE CC options that hit ALL players. Being clumped together with other players should be a risk. It makes sense from a realism AND a gameplay perspective.
 

Vitality

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Players focusing on PvP need to be aware of this. I hope that there are people on PTS doing regression on skill advancement and xp with some kind of logging if it's to be min-maxxed (despite that going against the spirit of this game) because PvP guilds who commit to larger population campaigns will need to manage this in their expectations of members and there may be times when giving up hours in Cyrodiil is costly.
Precisely why in previous posts I outlined a min-max XP/Gold/Crafting per hour setup focusing on "ruins" grinding.

Keep in mind I did these 27 minute Levels solo with a restoration staff. And outlined how each additional group member costed an aggregated 3% total xp.

So if each member could atleast add 3% to the clear speed (Given that mob spawns are not a limiting factor) this can be done in larger groups to great effect. (Ideal locations of course would be Ruins next to Elite world boss spawn to facilitate mob density saturation and enchanting disassembly materials *rarest ones to loot from mobs*)
 

signati_sl

shitlord
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Precisely why in previous posts I outlined a min-max XP/Gold/Crafting per hour setup focusing on "ruins" grinding.
Awesome! I'm going to look through your post history to find that.

Should have known Rerolled would already have it locked down. What was I thinking?
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Vitality

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Awesome! I'm going to look through your post history to find that.

Should have known Rerolled would already have it locked down. What was I thinking?
biggrin.png
I'll be sure to make an effort to stream next beta weekend, so I atleast have a VOD to reference.

And I'll have to update the gold values if the weapon/gold value normalization takes effect at that time.
 

Vitality

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All AE damage should do significant damage to ALL players it hits. And if you're going to have a class with good CC they should have great single-target CC options and moderate AE CC options that hit ALL players. Being clumped together with other players should be a risk. It makes sense from a realism AND a gameplay perspective.
Nightblade Healer CC
1.5 Cast time12 SecondMez (Does not work on mounted characters or more than one character at a time)
Instant Cast Movespeed Siphon
PBAE 700dmg (40% HP at bolstered 50 in cyrodil) Stun (4 seconds) No target limit *Ultimate* with Individually activated 500damage 35% HP lifesteal synergy activation.

Can swap to bow for:
Poison Arrow (Interupt and 3 second silence morph)

Dual Wield for:
Great single target DoT + Snare morph (Recently buffed duration in CB patch notes)
Combos well with Move speed steal + Teleport Strike + In combat invis

1 Hand + Shield
Charge stun + Bash
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Those are my fears as well. I've always thought they should really consider shortening campaigns to be 5 days on and 1 or 3 days off, where the winner after the 5 days gets unrestricted and solitary access to Cyrodiil, and misc high-value rewards are put into cyrodiil (resource nodes, loot pinata mobs etc), making it a victory party.
I was under the impression PRX will be coordinating with opposing hardcore PVP guilds in the other two factions so that all the hardcore PVP guilds will all be fighting against each other in a specified campaign?

If so, you shouldn't have to worry about the losers wimping out and quitting and moving to a different campaign. That would mean they really weren't as hardcore as they believed.
 

Vitality

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I was under the impression PRX will be coordinating with opposing hardcore PVP guilds in the other two factions so that all the hardcore PVP guilds will all be fighting against each other in a specified campaign?

If so, you shouldn't have to worry about the losers wimping out and quitting and moving to a different campaign. That would mean they really weren't as hardcore as they believed.
Shoulds and Shouldn'ts are for honest god fearing men, this is the internet, this is egypt, cats are gods here.

I've been in a few notable "Hardcore" guilds that had very weak core member baselines and disintegrated in the face of adversity. Memberships in guilds that are self-proclaimed "Hardcore" are very often based on fair-weather popularity.

I'd say Tuco's fears have merit. Especially in an environment that offers little comparitive participation value.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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I was under the impression PRX will be coordinating with opposing hardcore PVP guilds in the other two factions so that all the hardcore PVP guilds will all be fighting against each other in a specified campaign?

If so, you shouldn't have to worry about the losers wimping out and quitting and moving to a different campaign. That would mean they really weren't as hardcore as they believed.
Did you play WvW in GW2 at release?
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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People were leaving the domination of PRX within 5 days. I cannot imagine this going on for 90.

PRX doesn't coordinate. They conquer.

I want everyone to watch this video. Then I want everyone to imagine what this will be like using the current combat system in TESO.

[PRX] Epic Supply Camp Battle from Guild Wars 2 by Harrek - YouTube
So let's assume 5 days into a 90 day campaign PRX is dominating, Tuco has been crowned Emperor, and all the supposed hardcore PVP guilds in EP and DC faction have already given up and fled to other campaigns. PRX finds themselves with not much PVP action in their Home campaign.

Here are the options for PRX as I see it.
1. Get caught up on PVE content that awards skill points. This is something they will have to do eventually otherwise they will gimp themselves against VR10 opponents with all their skills capped out.

1a. BTW PVE is only way to raise rank in the professional guilds and they have some nice PVP skills.

2. Go where the action is. If the PVP action in their home campaign is dead, there is nothing stopping them from going to a campaign where AD faction is in last place and playing in there as a Guest.

3. If someone tries to take advantage of PRX being absent in their Home campaign by taking over territory PRX is not defending, a segment of PRX Guesting in other campaigns could come back and try the Alamo approach and try to defend their keeps despite being outnumbered.

Bottom line is I think people who want to spend most of their gametime PVPing will always be able to find some PVP action if they want to.
 

Utnayan

I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
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Ooh I wonder if one of our siege golem rushes is on there.
Yeah you have a ton out there. I think it is important to see the need for a responsive UI for all that to happen. Something that just doesn't exist right now even if they cleared the server lag, which adds a layer on top to that.

They had better have all their ducks in a row with this next weekend beta with regards to this, or they will start to see pre-orders slip.

1. Get caught up on PVE content that awards skill points. This is something they will have to do eventually otherwise they will gimp themselves against VR10 opponents with all their skills capped out.
This is why this is an issue. They won't want to PvE. And they should have all those ranks accessible in PvP as well without having to touch PvE if they do not want too. Their leader here said their PvE sucks. They are only in it for the PvP. It's a PvP centric end game - so why on earth they make a design decision forcing those players to go back to PvE when that isn't why they came on board for, nor what the end game is anyway, is a bad design flaw.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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2. Go where the action is. If the PVP action in their home campaign is dead, there is nothing stopping them from going to a campaign where AD faction is in last place and playing in there as a Guest.
I think the ease of doing this will be a huge factor in preventing boredom for many guilds. Though it's less fulfilling about defending a random server's land than defending your own. There's nothing like putting your back to the keep that holds your flag and seeing an enemy force approaching that has three times the number of yours.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
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I think the ease of doing this will be a huge factor in preventing boredom for many guilds. Though it's less fulfilling about defending a random server's land than defending your own. There's nothing like putting your back to the keep that holds your flag and seeing an enemy force approaching that has three times the number of yours.
What determines who is in a campaign in the mega server setup?