The Matrix (1999)

damnit Tarrant, i was just about to type "that idea sucks too. dont quit your day job". WTF

Tarrant_sl said:

No offense but that idea isn't very good. Don't quit your day job.

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Maester Chuk_sl said:

damnit Tarrant, i was just about to type "that idea sucks too. dont quit your day job". WTF

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This coming from you two means I am probably on to something great

With a Matrix prequel like that at least the Star Wars prequels wouldn't look so bad.

Gamma Rays_sl said:

With a Matrix prequel like that at least the Star Wars prequels wouldn't look so bad.

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We've got a Matrix prequel. It's the first two stories in the Animatrix.

And the Second Renaissance isawesome.I prefer it to either sequel.

Gamma Rays_sl said:

With a Matrix prequel like that at least the Star Wars prequels wouldn't look so bad.

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No one said anything about a prequel, was just an alternate explanation for where the matrix came from. None of this would matter if the matrix sequels never happened and people went home after the first movie and believed whatever they wanted to believe. But the sequels muddy the water enough, and add in enough retarded plot elements to make a lot of people wish they had done a better job of it, or had simply not offered any more exposition and just did two hour long fight sequences raging across the landscape.

I think it makes a lot more sense that the matrix was a system designed to preserve a portion of humanity. Otherwise, if the only reason the machines need people, is for is an implausible energy producing scheme; than there is no need for a virtual world. Just lobotomize everyone, and shut the matrix off. Problem solved. The backstory I wrote up does not make for good television, but would make for a good reveal when Neo met the architect finally.

^^^

When I called what you'd laid out a 'prequel' I was skipping a page or two of my explanation (fully my fault - I'll wear that one) I guess I meant pre-history.

What I skipped was: I had a thought along the lines of saying that you'd need to make a whole movie to explain what you've got there. Otherwise you'd need a 10 minute long - likely more - slab of exposition. It would be that long/longer once the movie makers (you I guess, as it's your vision here) put in a bunch of required cut scenes and flashbacks showing the events of the pre-history of the Matrix. Easier to expand it into a whole movie.

But the biggest problem with what you've got is that it require the total dumping of what Morpheus had told Neo in the original movie regarding the origins of the Matrix, the problem is that would also greatly weaken what Morpheus is/was. The role that Morpheus holds is as Teacher/Leader/Guide/Rock/Parent. His delivery of the history of humans Vs the machines in the first movie has to be the whole truth because of who his is.

An example of that: In the first movie Morpheus is certain that Neo is the one. However when Neo goes to meet the Oracle she tells him he's not the one:

Oracle: But... you already know what I'm going to tell you.
Neo: I'm not The One.
Oracle: Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.
Neo: What
Oracle: Your next life, maybe. Who knows? That's the way these things go.

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So Neo spends most of the rest of the movie doubting himself and thinking Morpheus was wrong. Which is why Neo goes to save Morpheus from the Agents in the secured building.

Trinity: Neo, Morpheus sacrificed himself so we could get you out. There is no way you're going back in.
Neo: Morpheus did what he did because he believes something I'm not.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I'm not the one, Trinity. The Oracle hit me with that too.
Trinity: No, you have to be.
Neo: I'm sorry, I'm not. I'm just another guy.

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So there's doubt in Neo's mind and the audience's mind. BUT then at the end it's all revealed that Neo is the one . . needed to be shot/face death/be saved by Trinity's love.

So Morpheus WAS right the whole time, totally cementing his role as Guide/Teacher/ etc.

You can't just go and make a sequel movie that then dumps on another of the big truths that Morpheus had laid out. "Yeah that Morpheus guy, he talks a lot, but he's kind of a dill"

That's how it is with movies, big changes = wide reaching effects.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the discussion and not trying to stop alternate ideas being thrown in.

The thing that always bugged me about the Matrix movies was that the people in Zion knew they were fighting floating tentacle monster machines and then built power armor suits that weren't fully enclosed, providing easy access for the tentacle monster machines to murder the pilots.

Well the way Morpheus delivers his lines he states, "we don't know who struck first us or them" and when trying to determine what year it was, he also wasn't sure. So humanity's knowledge of what lead up to current state is iffy at best and Morpheus was delivering the best guess of what had happened. Going against that would not destroy his character. He was only told that he would "find the one", not that he would "never ever be wrong".

As for having to turn the exposition into a movie, they way you get around that is you have a character (in this case Neo) do some digging as part of the plot to find the truth of what happened. Something or someone has to get him started, (oracle?) and then you build some plot points and scenes around him gathering the information. (Turns out no one can remember anything about Zion being built and the earliest records show it as always being there) Eventually this leads to an ancient site that reveals the first matrix, a much smaller and long abandoned facility, which presents clear evidence it was built by people. You tie in action sequences and interesting crap to keep people awake while you are getting there; but it would offer a good "low point" between the action bits to give the audience a break while also trying to put a serious twist in the movie. The key to something like that, is the scenes that follow this arc have to be really efficient; otherwise it can turn into a snooze fest fast.

Rengak_sl said:

The thing that always bugged me about the Matrix movies was that the people in Zion knew they were fighting floating tentacle monster machines and then built power armor suits that weren't fully enclosed, providing easy access for the tentacle monster machines to murder the pilots.

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yeah. The whole Zion battle was absolutely fucking retarded. The lack of EMP weapons aside (seriously, they were getting owned, then a single fucking ship come in, EMPs and half the machine army is gone. Where was the rest of the fleet ?)...who the fuck designed those power armor? seriously?

when fighting tentacle robots you want something like this

Why didn't the Osiris simply fly into the pack and EMP them all?

Pancrea_sl said:

"A singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines. We don't know who struck first - us, or them. But we know it was us that scorched the sky. At the time they were dependent on solar power and it was believed that they would be unable to survive without an energy source as abundant as the sun. Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."

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Just wanted to point out that this specific quote short of shoots down the claims of "oh well the movie studio stepped in and changed it from being about humans being used for computation or whatever to being used for power." Seems pretty obvious to me that humans being used for power was always how the Wachowski brothers/siblings intended on setting things up.

I get all the complaints about the weaknesses but surprised about the hate on the humans as power. Yeah it doesn't make sense but it's science fiction which is a genre ruined if you try to rationalize it on our current understandings of science. Most science fiction is just "technology magic" that assumes anything is possible. I mean they didn't elaborate on the fusion that assisted making humans as a power source so intentionally left vague means it could be anything. Maybe the computational power of the human brain was the key to the fusion but it needed the most active firing synapses possible to be efficient so the brains couldn't just be lobotomized but needed to function as if in real life, hence the matrix. Yeah that's just one of many bullshit explanations that still fall short to our current science but yeah: science fiction technology magic is the key. For all the shortcomings of the matrix as a trilogy that's not really a point that needs complained about with all the glaring other issues.

Eomer_sl said:

Just wanted to point out that this specific quote short of shoots down the claims of "oh well the movie studio stepped in and changed it from being about humans being used for computation or whatever to being used for power." Seems pretty obvious to me that humans being used for power was always how the Wachowski brothers/siblings intended on setting things up.

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Why does doing a good job with a bad premise disprove that their first run at it was different? Their initial idea for the trilogy was to have the second film be a prequel but doing another film without the stars of the first was going to be impossible. The initial first script for Reloaded was also very different than what they ended up going with. Shit gets changed all the time.

The Matrix's deep 'philosophy' is right out of a 101 class. People were only willing to be injected into the matrix if they were given a choice....wow! The minority who reject it will eventually cause the anomaly, aka 'The One'. Then the machines wipe them out once Zion reaches a certain population and the process starts all over again. The rest of it is pseudo-religious drivel which is never explained. All of that wouldn't have mattered if part 2 and 3 actually flowed well and had the same tone as the original - but they didn't. That would have to be my biggest grip with Reloaded and Revolutions... they don't feel like they were sequels to the original.

Luxer_sl said:

The Matrix's deep 'philosophy' is right out of a 101 class. People were only willing to be injected into the matrix if they were given a choice....wow! The minority who reject it will eventually cause the anomaly, aka 'The One'. Then the machines wipe them out once Zion reaches a certain population and the process starts all over again. The rest of it is pseudo-religious drivel which is never explained. All of that wouldn't have mattered if part 2 and 3 actually flowed well and had the same tone as the original - but they didn't. That would have to be my biggest grip with Reloaded and Revolutions... they don't feel like they were sequels to the original.

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Even the color theme changed from green to the greyblue etc - it was taking a entirely new route imo- and never really connected with Matrix 1-- after the frist movie in my mind there was alot of stuff that could have happend etc etc- then 2 and 3 where just...there...like...what?

xadion_sl said:

Even the color theme changed from green to the greyblue etc - it was taking a entirely new route imo- and never really connected with Matrix 1-- after the frist movie in my mind there was alot of stuff that could have happend etc etc- then 2 and 3 where just...there...like...what?

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/facepalm

Green = In the Matrix
Blue = In the real world

Seriously guys... this is getting embarrassing.