The Matrix (1999)

Trollface_sl said:

did Neo die? I still don't get it.

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He died for our sins...in a crucified position...with a glowing golden cross.....because fuck subtlety.

Tarrant_sl said:

This has to be the most retarded post ever.... on these or any other FOH related forums.....

Ever.

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I'm pretty sure you won that award by trying to insinuate that a computer could be 'evil'.

Lithose_sl said:

Sure didn't take long for your shallow philosophizing to strike it's max depth. (Hint: If humans are no more valuable than animals, then the entire explanation is void, I'll leave you to figure out why.)

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Your understanding is flawed.

Lithose_sl said:

As for the rest, this was one of the reasons I was hoping there was a "deeper" Matrix, where the reason behind the Matrix would become clear...Because as anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of physics should understand harnessing energy from a human being would be a net negative in energy--meaning the energy spent to feed the humans (Even if it's recycled humans) would be greater than what you got from the humans. The reason why this doesn't matter in the "real world" is because the sun creates a fuckingHUGEamount of energy--so even losing energy going up the chain doesn't matter because we have agiganticsurplus from the sun.

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This is also incorrect. It was explained away with a simple line: "combined with a form of fusion". We don't know what the process was, but we do know it was a net positive. You're trying too hard to /armchairscience

Lithose_sl said:

So, yes--there is no "selfish" reason to keep us conscious or even alive. The only reason to keep humans existing is a desire to see them alive. Which is why the whole hinting behind machines being helpful to humans was exciting, because it would have closed one of the biggest "holes" in the matrix. But again, 3 was made and we were left with dick.

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No holes, only misunderstanding. Some of the machines (the Oracle) did care about humans and thought they could live together. This is where Neo gets his help. It was in the 3rd movie where this is finally achieved and the machines team up with Neo to take down Smith. After that an agreement was made to end the war, and that those who wanted to leave the Matrix could do so freely.

Are you honestly going to make the claim that sentient artificial beings are incapable of evil? Where does that even come from? It sure as shit doesn't come from these films because if you were paying attention the primary antagonist is Agent Smith and he's world-alteringly evil.

The Edge_sl said:

This is also incorrect. It was explained away with a simple line: "combined with a form of fusion". We don't know what the process was, but we do know it was a net positive. You're trying too hard to /armchairscience

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Actually what we know is that it was a change due to executive meddling and doesn't make any real sense if you stop for a moment to think about it. You are the one that is trying too hard. The answer is completely mundane.

The Edge_sl said:

Your understanding is flawed.

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No, it's just that my understanding of "good" and "evil" doesn't come from the back of a cereal box.

The Edge_sl said:

This is also incorrect. It was explained away with a simple line: "combined with a form of fusion". We don't know what the process was, but we do know it was a net positive. You're trying too hard to /armchairscience

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God, I LOVE it when people bring up "the form of fusion"---Genius, it does not matter. No matter what you do, you have to put more energy into a human being than you will get out--NO MATTER WHAT. So if they have a "form of fusion" that supplemented energy in,the energy out would still be less--they'd be better off using that fusion energy themselves. It's not /armchair science, it's really, really basic physics. (I understand you might not grasp it, but we're talking elementary science.)

I can't believe I'm actually arguing this point with someone who can write basic English.

No holes, only misunderstanding. Some of the machines (the Oracle)did care about humans and thought they could live together. This is where Neo gets his help. It was in the 3rd movie where this is finally achieved and the machines team up with Neo to take down Smith. After that an agreement was made to end the war, and that those who wanted to leave the Matrix could do so freely.

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So there was no "selfish" reason, ergo the only reason to keep them alive/conscious was because some machines "liked" them, not because the humans were useful.
I'm glad you agree with me.

Lithose_sl said:

God, I LOVE it when people bring up "the form of fusion"---Genius, it does not matter. No matter what you do, you have to put more energy into a human being than you will get out--NO MATTER WHAT. So if they have a "form of fusion" that supplemented energy in,the energy out would still be less--they'd be better off using that fusion energy themselves. It's not /armchair science, it's really, really basic physics. (I understand you might not grasp it, but we're talking elementary science.)

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The really funny part is that if the machines have a form of fusionthey don't needto rely on anything else. Of course the fusion bit was dropped from the sequels, which is why during that conversation between Neo and The Architect in the second movie that The Architect said, "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" when he threatened to wipe out all humans.

Jarnin_sl said:

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" when he threatened to wipe out all humans.

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Which, just by and by, is still a really badass line.

mkopec_sl said:

The whole power thing never made sense to me, I mean yeah, humans blocked the sun, hello spaceships and hello infinite sun power. if machines can build other machines, surely they can buld a rocker, right? Why the fuck would you stay on this stupid rock if you could harness the entire galaxies power.

And lets say they cant build rockets, fuck, cant make fuel or something, why not use geothermal. Probably like another few billion years of that shit left at the core of our planet. Seems like alot more work to convert us into power rather than just using that.

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actually, that's one of the very few plotholes Revolution fixed. When Neo and Trinity get chased by the sentinels they fly up in the clouds and get EMPed by them. No machine could get past the clouds. That why they did not simply put gigantinc solar pannels in orbit

of course the whole thing lose its meaning depending how hard is to make a EMP immune machine

Mofakkin machines fly with no visible means of propulsion/lift. And the ship repowered when coming back down. Machines could easily launch some shit through those clouds with plenty of speed to power back up after the EMP, or on some kind of mechanical timer to power up after.

Shit, they could just build solar panels on long ass towers and push those fuckers up through.....

Just another massive gaping stupid plot hole.

fucker_sl said:

When Neo and Trinity get chased by the sentinels they fly up in the clouds and get EMPed by them.

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Wut? They didn't get EMP'd, they, and all those sentinels attached to the hull got struck by lightning. Plus Neo and Trinity were in a hovercraft. Hovercraft can't fly. The only reason why they made it above the cloud layer is because that "darkened sky" layer was only about a couple hundred meters off the ground (which is dumb because the machines should have been able to vacuum that shit up if it's that low), and they had enough forward momentum going to shoot them above the cloud layer, which shorted out the hovercraft. Then they crashed.

Grimmlokk_sl said:

Mofakkin machines fly with no visible means of propulsion/lift. And the ship repowered when coming back down. Machines could easily launch some shit through those clouds with plenty of speed to power back up after the EMP, or on some kind of mechanical timer to power up after.

Shit, they could just build solar panels on long ass towers and push those fuckers up through.....

Just another massive gaping stupid plot hole.

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Yeah, like how the machines didn't know how to shield themselves from electromagnetic energy... Fucking faraday cages were invented in 1836!

Jarnin_sl said:

Wut? They didn't get EMP'd, they, and all those sentinels attached to the hull got struck by lightning. Plus Neo and Trinity were in a hovercraft. Hovercraft can't fly. The only reason why they made it above the cloud layer is because that "darkened sky" layer was only about a couple hundred meters off the ground (which is dumb because the machines should have been able to vacuum that shit up if it's that low), and they had enough forward momentum going to shoot them above the cloud layer, which shorted out the hovercraft. Then they crashed.


Yeah, like how the machines didn't know how to shield themselves from electromagnetic energy... Fucking faraday cages were invented in 1836!

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i used the term EMPed to pass the idea and had too much faith in your ability to understand it

fucker_sl said:

i used the term EMPed to pass the idea and had too much faith in your ability to understand it

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Right, because "struck by lightning" isn't something that everyone on the planet is familiar with.

The fact is, I fucking loved The Matrix, even with all the technical problems it had. And it had a lot.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Are you honestly going to make the claim that sentient artificial beings are incapable of evil? Where does that even come from? It sure as shit doesn't come from these films because if you were paying attention the primary antagonist is Agent Smith and he's world-alteringly evil.

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He is Neo's opposite. Positive and Negative. Not Good and Evil.

True, he turned into a rogue program, but from his point of view, he was doing what he knew best to survive. Neo destroyed him originally when he was just doing his job.

Evil is a perspective.

Now we're getting to the important issues.

The Edge_sl said:

Evil is a perspective.

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Everyone except Agent Smith and maybe the Architect would call Agent Smith evil in that universe. Everyone. Every single everyone. Everywhere.