The New England Patriots 2014 Playoffs Thread

Gilgamel

Gilgamel

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Elurin_sl said:
If anything, I bet he gets a slap on the wrist. The league really probably doesn't want to go overboard here because, as I said above, it sounds like this is something every team is doing. Not only are they doing it, but they'vebeendoing it for decades.

Rodgers has said he pushes the envelope in the opposite direction (over inflated), Matt Leinart said it's something that every QB he knew did, and Terry Bradshaw was talking about doing it all the way back in the 70s.
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It's different, that's messing with the balls before the inspection. This was changing it in the 2 hours between the inspection and the game starting. It's not going a half-pound under and hoping the official doesn't notice, it's blatantly trying to cheat.
 
Gilgamel

Gilgamel

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Slightly over, slightly under, either is in that grey area and if the officials don't notice I'd probably call it gamesmanship. Presenting the balls properly inflated to the refs and then deflating them after inspection is a clear and blatant attempt to gain an advantage by circumventing the rules. The audacity is a bigger deal than the act itself, and it's just another indicator that the Pats will take any advantage they think they can get away with. They need to get smacked down for their attitude as much as anything.
 
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1987

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Gilgamel_sl said:
Slightly over, slightly under, either is in that grey area and if the officials don't notice I'd probably call it gamesmanship. Presenting the balls properly inflated to the refs and then deflating them after inspection is a clear and blatant attempt to gain an advantage by circumventing the rules. The audacity is a bigger deal than the act itself, and it's just another indicator that the Pats will take any advantage they think they can get away with. They need to get smacked down for their attitude as much as anything.
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Whats your assumption based on that the balls were doctored post inspection? Rather the refs simply doing a "squeeze test" and going that feels about right. Considering that a 2PSI difference would be noticable between the inspection pre-game and the refs touching the ball before, literally, every single Patriots offensive snap in the first half.

In your scenario you have to be talking a small enough difference that the refs are completely unaware of the difference between the pre-game, and during the game.
 
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azeth

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Haha yea at this point pretty clear the pats had under inflated balls, and the refs either didnt weigh them or didnt give a shit

now its a huge problem because thats against the rules and should have been caught by the officials, not the colts
 
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Robert Baratheon_sl

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Gilgamel_sl said:
Presenting the balls properly inflated to the refs and then deflating them after inspection is a clear and blatant attempt to gain an advantage by circumventing the rules.
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And that is why the Patriots need to be flayed alive this time. I think the NFL honestly needs to look at taking their entire 2015 draft. No picks. It's not so much the impact that the altered balls had on the game but the effort that was put into knowingly scheming around the officials. It's a clear disregard for the integrity of the game and without an appropriate punishment and future deterrent who is to say that their next scheme won't be a lot more significant to the outcome of a game(s)?

This shit honestly makes Belichick seem like Richard Nixon...so paranoid, obsessed, or whatever the fuck that he's cheating when he probably doesn't even have to. The Colts got beaten so badly it wouldn't have mattered if they played the game with basketballs, for fuck's sake.

And yeah, if anything else that comes out of this it's the league answering why they would have ever allowed the teams to bring their own balls to begin with. Doesn't the home plate ump in baseball control all of the balls?
 
Gilgamel

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I don't think so. Mortensen said the officials had done their inspection correctly and the tampering was done post inspection, and then this from Peter King:

Peter King_sl said:
2. There's a difference that all these ex-quarterbacks are not taking into account when they say, "Every team doctors the footballs." Former quarterback Matt Leinart tweeted something Wednesday that many quarterbacks were saying in different ways: "Every team tampers with the football. Ask any QB in the league, this is ridiculous!!"

Every quarterback can tamper with the 12 footballs assigned to his team in the days before the game. In the NFL, each team is allowed weekly to break in 12 new footballs as it sees fit, according to the quarterback's preference. That includes taking the shine and slipperiness off the new balls, and compressing them and working them in to soften the leather. By rule, those 12 footballs are then delivered to the officiating crew on site 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game begins.

At that point the head linesman inspects each football with one or more members of his crew. If need be, the officials will clean off the balls. Then they will insert a needle into the balls, one by one, to ensure the balls are inflated to the proper pressure: between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. If a ball is underinflated, an electric pump is used to fill it to the requisite level. Then all 12 balls are marked by silver Sharpie with a referee's personal preference of a mark-Gene Steratore's crew uses the letter "L," for Steratore's fianc?e, Lisa-and put back into the bag, and zipped. The bags are handed to the ballboys minutes before the opening kickoff. If it's raining, or bad weather is on the way, the officials might tell the ballboys to change the ball on every play, whether it hits the ground on the previous play or not.

To sum up: Yes, the quarterback or his equipment staff can break in the balls in whatever way they want a couple of days before the game. But no, the quarterback cannot dictate the level of air pressure in the ball. Or at least he cannot do it legally. And the low air pressure in the Patriots' footballs is why this is a story.
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If it turns out the official failed then it's not as big a deal, but I'm operating under the assumption King and Mort know their shit and the balls were fucked with post-inspection.
 
Chanur

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Its a much bigger deal in baseball. Fucking with the game ball has gone on since the beginning of the NFL there are a tremendous amount of stories out there about things that have been done and its why they made this half ass rule. I think the Refs should control the balls starting with the Superbowl and we can put the sly bullshit to bed.

I think its likely the refs were not checking the balls properly before the game rather than they some how decided to deflate 11 of them but not the last one during the game.
 
Gilgamel

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They get the balls back 15 minutes before kickoff. The one ball they didn't deflate is probably the one that they started the game with. At least that would be my guess.
 
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azeth

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Gilgamel_sl said:
They get the balls back 15 minutes before kickoff. The one ball they didn't deflate is probably the one that they started the game with. At least that would be my guess.
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If you're looking for a timeline they kicked off first. So i mean that should be plenty of time to deflate the 12th
 
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azeth

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I'm not saying teams win on feels, but Brady and the pats have some serious feels compelling them to blow the doors off the seahawks
 
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1987

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Interesting on article on how the Patriots could have doctored the balls pre-measurement, had them pass, and then lose PSI fairly quickly during the game.
Science! One Way To Deflate a Football Without Even Touching It - Patriots - Boston.com
However, the NFL found that 11 of the Patriots 12 balls were "underinflated by about 2 pounds each." In order for a ball to register a 10.5 PSI in a 50 degree environment but register a 12.5 PSI in the testing environment, the ball would have to have been inflated, stored, and/or tested in a 91 degree environment.

Schmaltz reasons that "about 2 pounds" means that the balls were likely somewhere in the 1.6-2 PSI below standard range. In that case, the balls would have to have been inflated, stored, and/or tested in an environment that was at least 82 degrees.
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Basically, pre-heating the balls so that they hit the 12.5psi minimum with hot air inside them, would naturally make them lose pressure once they were brought outdoors into 30 degree weather. And unless they were re-heated postgame the PSI might rise slightly, but not enough to hit the acceptable minimum.
 
Uber Uberest

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1987_sl said:
Whats your assumption based on that the balls were doctored post inspection? Rather the refs simply doing a "squeeze test" and going that feels about right. Considering that a 2PSI difference would be noticable between the inspection pre-game and the refs touching the ball before, literally, every single Patriots offensive snap in the first half.

In your scenario you have to be talking a small enough difference that the refs are completely unaware of the difference between the pre-game, and during the game.
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You can't tell the difference in a 12.5 PSI and 10.5 PSI ball by touching it. They just did their test on TV, two guys guessed the wrong ball, one got it right.
 
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Creslin

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It seems like we are just spinning our wheels until we know whether they were presented underinflated and the refs said OK until the colts complained more or the pats tampered post inspection which imo is a much different issue. One is like accepting a bad penalty that you know the ref got wrong, the other is like paying the ref to make the call.
 
Abefroman

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Dr. Mario Speedwagon_sl said:
Half the league is on drugs, we got refs blowing crucial calls in every game, and you coming at with some bullshit about underinfalted balls? In the NFL?

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No fucking kidding. How many times do players get suspended for PED's and all people want to know is when they get their guy back. Under inflate balls and it's the end of the fucking world.
 
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