The Odyssey (2026)

Since when do we care whether or not actors know about the source material of the film adaptations they act in? Half the cast of Lord of the Rings had not read the books, somehow I don't remember an uproar about that.

How many of them were drama majors from ivy league schools who never heard of LOTR or Tolkien?

Szlia said:

Since when do we care whether or not actors know about the source material of the film adaptations they act in? Half the cast of Lord of the Rings had not read the books, somehow I don't remember an uproar about that.

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Exactly what "we" do you think you are part of on this forum?

Big Phoenix said:

Lives in western society and works in the highest echelons of culture yet had no idea what the odyssey is?

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zzeris said:

Homer was the foundational author of the foundational civilization of The West. Now, I wouldn’t expect everyone to know his works in today’s world but it should have been shown in some capacity to a drama major in an Ivy school.

Almost every fantasy author over a 60+ year period discussed the impact of Tolkien on just a singular genre of books. Because they were well educated. See the difference?

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I think you guys underestimate the general knowledge level of a) random person in the west b) a drama/performing arts student who became an actor. If you weren't forced to study it in grade school or high school, how many would realistically know about Catcher in the Rye? Or MacBeth? Or Death of a Salesman? Or To Kill a Mockingbird? If you aren't exposed to those works through school, then the only way you're getting exposed to them is by stumbling across them or getting recommended them by others.

Do you guys honestly think places like Hampshire College (RIP) or Yale do The Odyssey for drama class or whatever (Odyssey isn't practical for drama class anyways unless you're doing some deconstructed or reimagined version of it - shit would be expensive as fuck. There's a reason most plays they do tend to be more modern era - shit is cheaper to produce and have minimal set changes)? Probably not, for the same reason they aren't going to go over MacBeth or To Kill a Mockingbird - because that shit is so standard in lower education, there typically isn't a need to go over it again in higher education outside of a course that goes really in-depth into those types of works. Same reason you're typically not going to go over basic Algebra.

Summed up: Most actors aren't exactly the pinnacle of knowledge and education and even outside actors, I can't speak for the middle or high school curriculum of schools in Africa or Asia or Latin America, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they probably focus more on regional works and only lightly dabble in international stuff in terms of literature

Intrinsic said:

Szlia has great insight into film and foreign stuff I’d never even have a chance to know about. He’s as much a part of the “we” in the movie forum as you or anyone and has been for decades. That being said, it certainly doesn’t excuse the stupidest of stupid hot takes of equivocating Homer and the Odyssey to Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings, and the actors or their backgrounds.

Not the least of which AGAIN glances over the fact she said she had NO IDEA what The Odyssey was. Not that she had not read it. It wasn’t that she “wasn’t familiar with the source material,” she wasn’t even aware of the existence of the source material. A ridiculous straw man.

A better example would be if Charlton Heston said he’d never heard of The Bible or Moses. Or Kenneth Branagh unaware of the existence of Shakespeare.

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I should have specified 'this conversation' instead of saying the entire forum.

Intrinsic said:

Szlia has great insight into film and foreign stuff I’d never even have a chance to know about. He’s as much a part of the “we” in the movie forum as you or anyone and has been for decades. That being said, it certainly doesn’t excuse the stupidest of stupid hot takes of equivocating Homer and the Odyssey to Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings, and the actors or their backgrounds.

Not the least of which AGAIN glances over the fact she said she had NO IDEA what The Odyssey was. Not that she had not read it. It wasn’t that she “wasn’t familiar with the source material,” she wasn’t even aware of the existence of the source material. A ridiculous straw man.

A better example would be if Charlton Heston said he’d never heard of The Bible or Moses. Or Kenneth Branagh unaware of the existence of Shakespeare.

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Maybe you see it as a straw man because my point was not clear: I am not equating Homer and Tolkien, I am not equating "not having read" with "not having heard of", I am saying we don't give a damn about what actors know or don't know about the source material, because it has no correlation with the quality of their job. It is weird to have never heard of The Odyssey as an adult who studied and lives in the US, even if you grew up in Kenya, but it has no impact on her abilities to do her job as an actor, so I am not sure why I or anyone should care, unless you are making bad faith arguments that are not about acting.

On a side note, Kenneth Branagh would be a false equivalence because he directed and wrote many of the movie adaptation of Shakespeare he stared in. That being said, if a director came forward and said "I found this great play I never heard of before called Richard III, I am going to make a movie about it" it would be weird, but it still wouldn't mean it would be a bad movie. Being very knowledgeable about something and being a big fan of that something ensures great passion and motivation, but not necessarily a good end result.

Szlia said:

Maybe you see it as a straw man because my point was not clear: I am not equating Homer and Tolkien, I am not equating "not having read" with "not having heard of", I am saying we don't give a damn about what actors know or don't know about the source material, because it has no correlation with the quality of their job. It is weird to have never heard of The Odyssey as an adult who studied and lives in the US, even if you grew up in Kenya, but it has no impact on her abilities to do her job as an actor, so I am not sure why I or anyone should care, unless you are making bad faith arguments that are not about acting.

On a side note, Kenneth Branagh would be a false equivalence because he directed and wrote many of the movie adaptation of Shakespeare he stared in. That being said, if a director came forward and said "I found this great play I never heard of before called Richard III, I am going to make a movie about it" it would be weird, but it still wouldn't mean it would be a bad movie. Being very knowledgeable about something and being a big fan of that something ensures great passion and motivation, but not necessarily a good end result.

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You're not wrong, it really doesn't say anything about what kind of performance she's going to deliver here. It's more of a criticism of her ("what kind of retard has never heard of the Odyssey?") and her school.

I don't give a shit that she's an actor and hasn't heard of the source material. I care that she graduated from a supposed "S tier" US university and, as zzeris said, has no clue about a foundational document for western civilization. Why is that? If your upbringing didn't adequately prepare you for higher level western thought you shouldn't be getting into any western liberal arts institutions much less Yale.

And if you're going to argue an actress doesn't need to know foundational cultural knowledge then I'd counter why does an Ivy need to provide what is essentially vocational training. Nobody is going to argue your plumber needs to know Homer but your plumber also isn't getting educated at Yale for his job.

Hampshire College had a non-standard model of "students make up their degree/area of study" that started back in the 60s/70s. It was also expensive as fuck. They had quite a few alumni that had notable careers in the media/movie field, most famously Ken Burns and also a guy who used to be the head of Industrial Light & Magic.

Yale I can't speak for, but the point being is that if you're at any big Ivy league school, not sure why you're all thinking they would go over basic shit most Americans learned in lower education. "Hey guys, I know you're all top tier or had top tier parents buying your way into the school, but we're going to now spend a semester going over shit you presumably learned when you were 12"

If only there was some way for ivy league colleges to know whether potential students have learned the "basic shit"

Maybe some sort of exam, or test, that could measure your... I don't know... scholastic aptitude.