The Trayvon Trial

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Tanoomba

Tanoomba

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Noodleface_sl said:
Why do you assume he's racist? If a white kid had gotten killed in the same situation, this trial wouldn't even have shown up in national news for a second, but because the kid was black we all assume Zimmerman is some racist douchebag. Face the facts, racial profiliing is real, and we all do it. If you can say you don't look at a kid like that and put up your guard just a little bit, or you see a bunch of muslims boarding a plane you don't think twice then you are lying. Did the kid deserve to be shot? Given what we know, no I don't think so. Truth be told, only Zimmerman knows what happened that day.
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The examples of behavior you listed are, in fact, racist. Just because you believe "everybody does it" doesn't make it any less racist.
And following a kid around because he's black is also racist. (Don't forget Zimmerman has a history of reporting suspicious black folk)
I'm not splitting the atom here.
 
ZyyzYzzy

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Tanoomba_sl said:
The examples of behavior you listed are, in fact, racist. Just because you believe "everybody does it" doesn't make it any less racist.
And following a kid around because he's black is also racist. (Don't forget Zimmerman has a history of reporting suspicious black folk)
I'm not splitting the atom here.
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Do you personally know Zimmerman and see him first hand display any racists actions towards African Americans? No? He was concerned about the safety of his neighborhood because of a string of break ins. Follows a kid who he doesn't recognize. That's not racist.
 
vGrade

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The responses in the Justice for Trayvon Facebook page are more entertaining than the trial.
 
khalid

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There is no evidence that Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon. There were break ins in the area, he followed someone he didn't know. That is not racist or against the law in any way. It certainly isn't evidence of racial profiling.
 
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Tanoomba_sl said:
I'm upset that the actions of a racist prick resulted in the death of a young man who had done nothing wrong.
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He didn't do anything wrong right up to the point he decided to provoke someone with a gun into shooting him. How and why exactly that happened we don't know; we only have one version. If you just want to make assumptions and say Zimmerman jumped on him, started hitting him, etc... then thats fine. But there's no evidence to support that. Zimmerman had injuries to his face and the back of his head... Martin had injuries to his hands from punching. Who do you think was the aggressor?

Does it suck for black people that everyone assumes they are criminals and follow them around? Sure. Its not fair. Does that mean that Martin "did nothing wrong"? If we take the evidence we have at face value, he did do something wrong. He attacked someone with a gun. He paid for that mistake with his life.
 
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khalid_sl said:
There is no evidence that Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon. There were break ins in the area, he followed someone he didn't know. That is not racist or against the law in any way. It certainly isn't evidence of racial profiling.
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And whether he racially profiled him or not is irrelevant. Its only relevant to the issue at hand whether or not Martin attacked Zimmerman or Zimmerman attacked Martin. Nobody alleges any illegal activity up to the physical confrontation, and there is simply no evidence to suggest Zimmerman started that confrontation.

Racism, while distasteful, also isn't illegal, or uncommon. We need to stop acting like "oh he was racist! HE SHOULD FRY!" Join the real world.
 
khalid

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Cad_sl said:
If we take the evidence we have at face value, he did do something wrong. He attacked someone with a gun. He paid for that mistake with his life.
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Attacking someone for simply following you is still wrong, whether or not the person had a gun. The only thing the addition of the gun did (if we take evidence at face value) was stop Trayvon from possibly killing Zimmerman by smashing his head into the sidewalk.
 
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Pop quiz: they segregate jails by race (at least in Dallas) because:

a. they're racist and give whitey the preferred cells
b. blacks and whites and hispanics all in the same holding cells would kill each other
 
Vaclav

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hodj_sl said:
I've thought manslaughter would be a better charge to bring for quite awhile.

The thing is that if Martin did walk down the dog path and then returned and confronted Zimmerman, legally speaking, that would be initiating a new encounter, as the last one technically ended once Zimmerman stopped following Martin and Martin moved to the end of the street.

That's why the time line of events is so important.

But yeah, I'd say if anything a manslaughter charge would stick easier than 2nd degree murder charges.

Or wreckless homicide. Negligent homicide.

Something along those lines.
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That's what I've been saying for a while elsewhere. (PS - no W in Wreckless for this context, no?)
 
Vaclav

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Araysar_sl said:
And had you not registered here and posted something so profoundly stupid I would not have to waste 2 calories of energy to roll my eyes and type this post
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Man, the wife is looking to lose a few pounds - I'll suggest this amazing new health revelation - 500 eye rolls a day does sound far more her speed than most things!
 
Vaclav

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hodj_sl said:
I could be wrong, because I'm not a lawyer nor an arm chair lawyer, but the way the law works from my understanding is that if Martin returned up the path and confronted Zimmerman after getting away from him, then Martin would unfortunately become the aggressor in that situation. The law is funnily specific like that. If you and I get in a fight, and I get away and then return a few minutes later and attack you again, I became the aggressor, regardless if you actually initiated the fight. To take that example further, if you and I get in a fight, and I flee and come back with a gun and shoot you, I can be charged with basically 1st degree murder. I premeditated, grabbed my gun, and returned to the fight to shoot you.

Intent and the order of events becomes all important.
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From what I've gathered from lawyers elsewhere on that subject is it depends on if people have left the "location". But the "location" can be pretty wide or narrow as the case may be - in this case does the community count as the location, or just that specific group of townhomes?
 
khalid

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What is the downside to starting with 2nd degree manslaughter if the jury can just find them guilty of a lesser charge? Plenty of people have said it was a mistake to charge Zimmerman with that, but if the jury could still rule manslaughter or whatever, seems no downside from the prosecutors pov.
 
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khalid_sl said:
What is the downside to starting with 2nd degree manslaughter if the jury can just find them guilty of a lesser charge? Plenty of people have said it was a mistake to charge Zimmerman with that, but if the jury could still rule manslaughter or whatever, seems no downside from the prosecutors pov.
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People say a lot of stupid things, especially in news articles. It'd be nice if reporters actually researched their stories or talked to a lawyer before they wrote a story about a criminal trial. They don't.
 
Noodleface

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From Facebook, totally unbiased depiction of the events.

DeShawn McCrackin LONG STORY SHORT:Trayvon was walking home and stalked by GeorgeKillermanand then when Trayvon tried to run to evade being followed by an unknown assailant. Upon being chased down and confronted, Trayvon was now in what Florida calls stand your ground which means if your life feels threatened then you may use deadly force which was to swing on George Killerman who I am sure tried to put his hands on trayvon as he has done previously with his wife and police officers and caught some punches that were thrown in the light of protection and then wrestled with Trayvon. This still unknown assailant who am I sure did not announce his self as neighborhood watch which he was advised not to chase Trayvon down anyway. When entangled with Trayvon he tried to play victim so his intent on using his gun that he carried (also while walking his dog) which was to shoot Trayvon which he did and the neighbor noticed his nervousness of the realization of his actions of just murdering that child when he stood up and walked around looking regretful. Listen to testimonies without painting the correct picture will make you a follower. Trayvon was chased down and killed by an abusive want to be cop who was use to using physical force to make his point. NOTHING OR NO ONE CAN DENY THAT. plenty of links on the web for his previous arrest for abuse. The last witness was able to see the two guys wrestling, but didn't hear or see two other neighbors who saw and heard him?
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Darshu_sl

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Tanoomba_sl said:
The examples of behavior you listed are, in fact, racist. Just because you believe "everybody does it" doesn't make it any less racist.
And following a kid around because he's black is also racist. (Don't forget Zimmerman has a history of reporting suspicious black folk)
I'm not splitting the atom here.
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Well here's Zimmerman's racism.. per the prosecution:
Jeantel has consistently said she heard Martin ask Zimmerman why he was following him. But in an earlier account, she said Zimmerman replied, "What are you talking about?" But on the stand she said Zimmerman replied, "What are you doing around here?"

So if the neighborhood watch asks someone they see as suspicious "What are you doing around here?" is that racist? I'll be honest, I ask homeless people that right before I have security throw them out of my complex. Most of them are black. Am I racist for that?
 
Vaclav

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Darshu_sl said:
Well here's Zimmerman's racism.. per the prosecution:
Jeantel has consistently said she heard Martin ask Zimmerman why he was following him. But in an earlier account, she said Zimmerman replied, "What are you talking about?" But on the stand she said Zimmerman replied, "What are you doing around here?"

So if the neighborhood watch asks someone they see as suspicious "What are you doing around here?" is that racist? I'll be honest, I ask homeless people that right before I have security throw them out of my complex. Most of them are black. Am I racist for that?
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Context matters as well as tone - if he said it in a polite tone with non-aggressive posture its one thing, if he said it in an aggressive tone with his jacket pulled aside to show his gun - it's a completely different ball of wax saying the same words.
 
jeydax

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Darshu_sl said:
Am I racist for that?
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Are you white? Then it is automatically racist.
Are you black? If so then you can't be racist!

rolleyes.png
 
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