This thread is already derailed. Spanish train derails, kills 78

Tuco

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There is a million reasons a human still drives them, no point in going into them. The technology exists and is being implemented to "fail safe" trains not running into each other or speeding. It has a number of issues and costs someone in the neighborhood of 50k per rail mile. My railroad has 20k miles of track, so it's a big cost and the railroads are doing all they can to avoid doing it.
Yeah assuming you know what you're talking about I'd love to hear more about this. I just assumed that rail cars have some of the most automated travel mechanisms given the simplicity of rail-travel compared to on highway, sea or air.

As for the guys' quotes, that's incredible. He's been doing this shit for thirty years and now he's pulling this kind of shit? It sounds like he went crazy.
 

Nimchammund_sl

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And in 10 years or so Madison Square Garden will be removed to make way for a 200mph train system connecting NYC to D.C. in 90 minutes.

They need to get their act together because another issue that will come up in addition to recklessness will be hacking so even if a failsafe is active it needs to be hacksafe too.
 

Lemeran

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PTC (positive train control) is the term for it, it is an add on the the railroad signal system (think traffic lights). It can send a signal to the locomotive to stop it if action is not taken to stop the train at appropriate times. Locomotives are full of computers and have event recorders in them (they don't prevent an accident, only tell the story after). The cars themselves have little to no technology, freight cars have only air brakes.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control
 

Chukzombi

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so why not install a gps based system on these trains that can monitor and control their speeds from a control room?
 

Lemeran

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The wireless version is cheaper, but not very reliable. The PTC being installed now has equipment at every signal and in every locomotive. It knows track layout, speed restrictions, workers present etc, signal indication (stop, go, be ready to stop etc) they system has to never fail. The biggest issue is trains running into each other and blowing up a town, this incident with speeding sounds like the engineer was pulling a mass murder thing.
 

Zhaun_sl

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Read a nice article in conjunction with this, asking if this will be another reason against high speed rail coming to America. Then it went on to talk about how Obama has been trying to give away money to the states for it but the states have been rejecting it for stupid reasons. It's also struggles due to the US insisting upon three times the safety requirements that the Euros and Asians have making the trains far more expensive if not impossible to build.

Pretty standard American silliness.
 

iannis

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Read a nice article in conjunction with this, asking if this will be another reason against high speed rail coming to America. Then it went on to talk about how Obama has been trying to give away money to the states for it but the states have been rejecting it for stupid reasons. It's also struggles due to the US insisting upon three times the safety requirements that the Euros and Asians have making the trains far more expensive if not impossible to build.

Pretty standard American silliness.
The feds don't give away money for free, that's not how it ever works. The Congress used the interstates to hobble the States, and the States stole from the interstates. I'm sure you'd have to read the fine print as to why States are REALLY saying thanks but no thanks.
 

Zhaun_sl

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The feds don't give away money for free, that's not how it ever works. The Congress used the interstates to hobble the States, and the States stole from the interstates. I'm sure you'd have to read the fine print as to why States are REALLY saying thanks but no thanks.
Fair enough. Probably shouldn't have worded that the way I did. It just seems like something we aren't making forward progress on even though it would be valuable. We have this gigantic country with all this empty space, you'd think trains would be rather advanced and popular. In fact, the country was kind of built on them in some ways and then we all bought a car and ignored them. Like some kind of grand plan or conspiracy...

*is killed by oil and car entrepreneurs*
 

Gravel

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I would've figured oil/automotive/airline lobbyists worked in some kind of non-sense reason to kill it.
 

Eomer

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What's with all the train shit lately?
Italy's got you covered bro:http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...bus-crash.html

Lithose_sl said:
Why are humans still even driving these things? I mean, I can understand having a human there for braking, or watching the tracks into and out of stations...but shouldn't it be a computer controlling the speeds around things like curves and what not? Or at the very least, a computer recording "rule breaking" and alerting a higher up.
An article I read indicated that in Spain when the train was traveling on high-speed only tracks it would be largely automated. But on the lower speed, mixed tracks where other slower passenger trains and cargo trains would run, it would be controlled by the driver. I would imagine it's difficult to fully automate those systems, given their complexity. Rail systems in Europe are anything but simple, as Tuco claimed.
 

Jysin

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Head on collision with passenger trains in Switzerland.

http://news.sky.com/story/1121900/sw...engers-injured

460x.jpg
 

Lendarios

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The problem is not the technology. the problem is idiots behind the wheel. This guy was obviously not qualified or was too reckless to be in charge of the lives of others. You cant prevent nor fix stupid. This instance sadly is one of those events.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Italy's got you covered bro:http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...bus-crash.html



An article I read indicated that in Spain when the train was traveling on high-speed only tracks it would be largely automated. But on the lower speed, mixed tracks where other slower passenger trains and cargo trains would run, it would be controlled by the driver. I would imagine it's difficult to fully automate those systems, given their complexity. Rail systems in Europe are anything but simple, as Tuco claimed.
I would be interested in learning about what complexities are managed by onboard human operators of trains during normal operation.
 

Eomer

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I would be interested in learning about what complexities are managed by onboard human operators of trains during normal operation.
I meant the system as a whole. Everything from slow local transit to high speed transcontinental passenger trains to freight run on the same lines. It's not "simple" to automate that entire system. I'm sure this incident will be a big motivator to do more in that regard, certainly.