Total War: Warhammer

Pyros

Pyros

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Erronius_sl said:
Yet another game with a release/DLC scheme that rewards me for holding off and waiting for a Steam sale and/or a GOTY edition.
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It's one way to look at it, at the same time if the game's fun and assuming you're not a fan of only one of the unreleased race, it's probably worth playing right away for a while, take a break, then come back to it later with all the DLC and shit. I think 4 races at launch is a pretty good amount of races for a Warhammer game. 5 if you preorder. It's really not very realistic for them to release all races at once and it makes sense for the races to be DLC rather than free, since it isn't just slight armor remodels and a handful of unique units like in a realistic game that uses humans only, every race needs entirely new models for pretty much everything(I mean some armies are just the same races, like Bretonia, the various elves, chaos dwarves etc, but they still tend to have a ton of unique units, and that's nothing to say of Lizardmen or Skaven).

Anyway from the looks of it, the core game is going to be well worth the money I think, that's how it looks at least. I'll still hold off on it for a while see if I need to get a refund, but I don't think they're like releasing a skeleton of a game and you'll need to buy all DLC to have a decent experience. I think that's a fine way to do DLC, it's more similar to expansions than cut parts of the game. Other than Chaos warriors obviously, that one's kinda shady, but as I said before personally doesn't bother me too much since there is a way to get it for free.
 
Chysamere

Chysamere

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I really, really want to play this game and I'd probably pre-order it if it wasn't for the horrendous record they have for buggy releases.

I'm with Erro and I'll be waiting for a GOTY/Sale down the line.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Erronius_sl said:
This is similar to the same reasoning with BB2 and wanna guess if I've bought that yet?


NOOOOOPPEEE
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Oh I didn't buy that either, but the reason is more because there was a BB1 anyway and it didn't look like it improved a whole lot on the game, while this is kinda brand new(I mean in terms of warhammer, I guess it's similar to their other Total War games). Also the races are more substantial in Warhammer than Bloodbowl. And it was mostly multiplayer and shit, while this has campaigns. But I get it, waiting until they have all the content in is definitely a good idea if you don't care about playing it right away, as there will be more content eventually.

I kinda go both ways on this, but if I don't play a game at launch, it gets added to a stupidly long backlog. Even though I play games a lot, I end up playing so many filler games like mmos/mobas/arpgs that I don't get to play the games at all, or way way late and it feels weird. There's also the issue that sometimes the DLC stuff isn't worth it so you waited for nothing(although in this case I assume the DLC will be worth it).

The plentiful DLC system and their history of poor releases is definitely in favor of waiting though. I just feel I probably won't be playing anything when this releases, so that'll be a good game to pick up.
 
Faith

Faith

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I think I will go the Attila route with this. Download a cracked copy at release to get all the goodies and handle the bugs as they pop up then simply buy a Humble Bundle version down the line. Considering even Games Workshop has abandoned the IP I dont see why I should have to buy into DLC heaven at release (nor subject myself to having to pay for a buggy release).


On the positive side, by now Attila is certainly worth what I paid for it.
 
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CocaineSamurai_sl

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Attila had a very solid launch considering how badly Rome2/Empire etc launched, hoping for more of the same here especially since they pushed it back a month.

I don't mind paying upfront since any WHFB fan who played a TW game for the first time all thought the exact same thought of "There needs to be a Warhammer version of this right now." This has been something some people have been waiting for 12-15 years.

Thinking I'm going to start with Empire since they have a wide range of unit types to help learn the ins and outs of the new systems like flying units/magic and the weak infantry will force players to git gud. Dwarves/Chaos next and hopefully by the time I've tired of them Bretonnia and hopefully either Wood Elves or Beastmen are out/announced so I can finally play something I liked from the TT.
 
Faith

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CocaineSamurai_sl said:
Attila had a very solid launch considering how badly Rome2/Empire etc launched, hoping for more of the same here especially since they pushed it back a month.

I don't mind paying upfront since any WHFB fan who played a TW game for the first time all thought the exact same thought of "There needs to be a Warhammer version of this right now." This has been something some people have been waiting for 12-15 years.

Thinking I'm going to start with Empire since they have a wide range of unit types to help learn the ins and outs of the new systems like flying units/magic and the weak infantry will force players to git gud. Dwarves/Chaos next and hopefully by the time I've tired of them Bretonnia and hopefully either Wood Elves or Beastmen are out/announced so I can finally play something I liked from the TT.
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There are several mods out there that turn almost any Total War game into WHFB, but yeah I will buy this once it comes with all the content in about a year or two. Their massive DLC drive in the later games of the TW series is starting to annoy me, especially since the content is obviously there from day one just that you have to pay to unlock it.
 
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turbo

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So i never played PC games outside of EQ, Might & Magic, and Civ until I was like 25 (born in 81) so i missed out on alot of PC culture/games and even when i did it was extremely sparingly since I was into MMO's hardcore up until 3-4 years ago so i rather dedicate my time on that.

So i never played any war hammer outside the MMO. I watched a few of the videos posted but still abit confused. Is this an actual turn based or is it all happening in real time? Saw action points so wasn't sure.

All the customization and special traints, abilities blah blah...this game looks exactly what i've grown to really enjoy in my gaming experience as i've gotten older but i always hated RTS's so am hoping this is turn based.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Turbo_sl said:
So i never played PC games outside of EQ, Might & Magic, and Civ until I was like 25 (born in 81) so i missed out on alot of PC culture/games and even when i did it was extremely sparingly since I was into MMO's hardcore up until 3-4 years ago so i rather dedicate my time on that.

So i never played any war hammer outside the MMO. I watched a few of the videos posted but still abit confused. Is this an actual turn based or is it all happening in real time? Saw action points so wasn't sure.

All the customization and special traints, abilities blah blah...this game looks exactly what i've grown to really enjoy in my gaming experience as i've gotten older but i always hated RTS's so am hoping this is turn based.
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It's both. The campaign stuff is turn based, similar to Civ and stuff. The combat is however real time. You can pause(or at least you can on the easier difficulties, on the hardest I think you can't, not sure if warhammer will be the same). You could skip the combat with auto resolution and stay in the strategy aspect entirely, but you'd be missing quite a bit. It's isn't like twitch based RTS combat though, you don't need to micro everything either.
 
Sulrn

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Turbo_sl said:
So i never played PC games outside of EQ, Might & Magic, and Civ until I was like 25 (born in 81) so i missed out on alot of PC culture/games and even when i did it was extremely sparingly since I was into MMO's hardcore up until 3-4 years ago so i rather dedicate my time on that.

So i never played any war hammer outside the MMO. I watched a few of the videos posted but still abit confused. Is this an actual turn based or is it all happening in real time? Saw action points so wasn't sure.

All the customization and special traints, abilities blah blah...this game looks exactly what i've grown to really enjoy in my gaming experience as i've gotten older but i always hated RTS's so am hoping this is turn based.
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Like Pyros said: campaign map is turn based civ/research/diplomacy management, tactical battles are real time but can be auto-resolved based on leader/army values at a penalty.

If you want a taste see if theM2:TW demostill works: Not much is going to be different besides graphics/engine.
 
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turbo

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Thanks, i don't want to play a game where auto battle is enabled as that ruins the fun of min/maxing and all that fun stuff to get advantages. Just didn't want to walk into some stupid starcraft shit or something where my non-korean blood puts me at a 95% disadvantage!
 
Sulrn

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Turbo_sl said:
Thanks, i don't want to play a game where auto battle is enabled as that ruins the fun of min/maxing and all that fun stuff to get advantages. Just didn't want to walk into some stupid starcraft shit or something where my non-korean blood puts me at a 95% disadvantage!
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You say that now, but for all it's flaws the SC2 battle engine is well-tuned and overly polished (in terms of unit control and management) - something you will (historically) never say about a Total War battle engine. I'm not sure how troop/leader upgrades are going to be finalized in this iteration, but even with min-maxing auras/abilities/items and troop armor/weapons/exp the battles (against ai) always come down to positioning skirmishers, flanking/charging bonuses, and cycling melee to maintain morale to maximize your other benefits - all of which are restricted by the limitations and quirks of the engine and the control it gives you over your Units. M2:TW is a good example for that if you try the demo and play around with flanking cavalry charges - a mechanic that has been "fixed" (as a dev stated feature) in every TW release since.
 
Strifen

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Good news for multiplayer. I can see them being playable in the main campaign either with or shortly after the first major patch.

The feudal realm of Bretonnia will be playable in custom and multiplayer battles from day one in Total War: WARHAMMER.

Though not available as a playable Race in the Grand Campaign, you will be able to go head-to-head in one-off battles using Bretonnia's formidable roster of hard-hitting knights and cannon-fodder peasants.

Characterised by a range of powerful armoured units, including the iconic barded warhorses and flying Pegasus Knights; Bretonnian battle tactics frequently revolve around shattering and unstoppable charges. Also of note is the devastating Trebuchet artillery, and the numerous massed ranks of archers, capable of filling the air with swarms of arrows. While Bretonnian armies might lack the huge monsters that other races can often employ, they can bring to bear powerful magic users in the guise of Enchantresses; capable not only of offensive spells but also powerful buffs to further enhance their knights to superhuman levels.

To see the new troops in action, check out this week's edition of Rally Point, where a Bretonnian city is besieged by the Vampire Counts in a multiplayer grudge match between Community Manager Darren and YouTuber Lionheart:Total War: WARHAMMER - Rally Point Challenge: Bretonnia Multiplayer Custom Battle [ESRB] - YouTube

Total War: WARHAMMER is out on the 24th May, for more details visitTotal War
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cyrusreij

cyrusreij

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They stated in that thread that Bretonnia won't be paid DLC, and separately that the first FLC race is end of 2016, so yes, definitely Bret, but they won't be Grand Campaign playable for quite a while. Better than nothing though, so A+ there.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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That seems curious that they'd need until the end of 2016 to make it available in the campaign. Or is it just because of the pace of their DLC releases, so they're going with a paid race first and free race after? I know there's a timeline for that shit but too lazy to double check it. I guess they'd add an opposing race then add Bretonnia then have the campaign for both where they're direct opposites(like dwarves/orcs and vampire/empire).

As for the SC2 and the real time combat, it does look more micro intensive than I first thought, looking at that last video. One big thing that seems kinda meh is the heroes "free" cooldowns. On the left side around their portraits, the heroes all seem to have cooldowns that you want to activate everytime they're up(or well as long as they're in combat), which sounds kinda meh since it'll put an emphasis on hitting these often in the middle of combat using hotkeys and what not, similar to unit production in the middle of a SC2 fight. There's not that many, but they're on short enough cd(15-30secs it looks like), that it'll be pretty important. Would probably be better if they had longer lasting effects with longer cds. There is also a lot of repositionning to do, although movement and pace of the game seems to be less intense than in a normal RTS, so that's less of an issue. In SC2 if you don't pay attention to one part of the map, you can lose your 20tanks to a bunch of zerglings in like 10secs top which is basically a game lost at that point, but it doesn't seem like it's the case here. You might get your units demoralized, but they don't get exterminated instantly(unless they're expendable shit getting shred by artillery/archers, but that's expected anyway and they accomplish their role if they're getting hit instead of other units).

There's also the aspect that in campaign mode, solid prefight preparation should give you an overwhelming advantage that leaves you a lot more room for mistakes. A strong economy will feed your army with better items and more troops, so that you can crush your enemy even if you fuck up here and there(as long as you don't let your heroes die randomly like an idiot that is, but they seem to be tanky enough that you'd need to be afk for them to die to stupid shit).

But damn those combat videos look good. That Terrogheist moving from units to units, doing leaps or crawling on the ground then ripping people apart and all these knight charges, shit looks so awesome.
 
Lleauaric

Lleauaric

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On Magic....

This means two things, firstly, wizards don'thavemagic theyusemagic. The reason there's a distinction here is because in gameplay each wizard does not have a total pool of magic they can cast, the pool is shared by every wizard in your army, and the opposing army will have an equal amount of magic to share across their own wizards. It will not work to build an army of mostly wizards, one wizard will have access to as much magic as five wizards. The amount of magic is based on how strong the Winds of Magic are blowing, which is determined on tabeltop by a dice roll. CA developers have revealed that in Total War it will be based on the geographic location of the battle. Some areas will be more rich in magic, where the winds blow harder.

Secondly, it means casting spells is dangerous. Since the wizards are tapping into energy from the Chaos realms there is a chance of the spell going wrong, and turning against the caster and those around him. Casters can be injured, dragged through the portal against their will, or even be the focus point of a massive explosion. In tabletop the higher the casting requirement of the spell the better the chance it will go wrong, it's unclear if that will also be the mechanic in Total War. -- Edit: /u/herdman59 informs us in the comments that there's evidence that miscasting will be in Total War.
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So you probably wont want to spam the magic button on every cooldown or wont be able to. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
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turbo

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Well that tempered my hype for the game; i've been a wizard fan since a wee lil lad so i like to build comps with heavy magic in all games and go All In with the big bang baby. Saddens me~!
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Lleauaric_sl said:
On Magic....



So you probably wont want to spam the magic button on every cooldown or wont be able to. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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I wasn't talking about magic though. I was talking about traits and skills that hero units seem to have. Magic is on the right side, it has a little circle and a bunch of spells and yeah it's fairly limited so you need to use it smartly. But on the left side of the UI, you have shit around the portrait of the hero selected(normal units don't). It seems to be like Rallying Cries and shit like that. In the last video, Leoncoeur has 3 abilities, the paladin has 2 and the mage has 1(which he actually reads at some point in the fight, it increases her magic point generation for a few seconds). You can see the effects of those on the tooltips at some various points in the video when he selects the units and activate them, they're like +morale in aoe or +combat stats for 9secs and shit like that. There's no ressource for these as far as I can tell other than the cooldown(which seems to be more 30+secs now that I checked the video again but still).
 
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turbo

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So what fucking "suit" thought it was a good idea to release this shit on the 24th (sunday) when the weekend is my time to slay the god damn fucking dragon. Next 4 weeks is hell for me with work and travel so i was looking forward to one nice relaxing weekend watching my Spurs destoy some bitches and playing this ending with some Game of Thrones. Totally ruined it BOB
 
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