Vermintide 2

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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charged attack just means aiming right? weird that they would call that 'charged attack' but i guess universal terminology for using RMB. Seems like a potential improvement for a halberd/exsword FK since you already handle hordes well with your melee weapon, you're basically trading off the ability to one-shot a pack of berserkers for a more reliable ability to pop specials at range. It's amazing how many times recently I've fired at a slightly distant special and watched all the shrapnel split perfectly around him more than once.

Anyway I like that they're buffing the handgun instead of nerfing other stuff, although only one weapon at a time when there are many weapons sucking high on tit seems kinda slow. Too bad the repeater will never be good unless they bring back the haste death machine.
 

Muurloen

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
13,514
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Increased the delay of Specials spawns after a Lord dies to 120, up from 40 seconds. Reduced the possibility of multiple Specials spawning at the same time when this duration is over. This will mitigate some of the issues on Into the Nest, after the lift after fighting Skarrik Spinemanglr. Being gunned down on the platform after defeating a Lord is neither fair nor balanced.

RIP ambush.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Oh didn't realize it was a full patch, guess they changed more than just the handgun. Dunno how big of a nerf to the falchion that is since I was never doing light attacks to armor/chaos warriors anyway. Depending on how much better 1h axe is against hordes it might be viable to carry one on Saltzpyre, but I suspect the falchion is still a much better weapon. I typically use 1h axe/drakegun on Bardin, so having the axe be better when i dont have room to charge up the drakegun is a big improvement there. Even with the improvement to the crossbow I suspect neither Saltzpyre or Bardin would ever use it given their other options.

Fixes / Tweaks
  • Handmaiden Kerillian had an issue where she would receive more damage than intended, this has now been corrected.
  • Witch Hunter Captain Saltzpyre's level 25 Talent Resonating Faith now correctly increases the duration of Animosity.
  • Fixed an issue for Deeds where effects could persist in to the Keep on the clients. This was especially noticeable with the “Back to Basics” Deeds.
  • Decreased the fuse timer on barrels to 4 seconds, down from 6.
  • Fixed a bug where explosive barrels would do a very small amount of damage. Increased the damage on explosive barrels to be on par with bombs.
  • Fixed a bug that would cause you to do light attacks when trying to spam pushes.
  • Tweaked input buffering to more reliably switch wielded weapons.
  • Fixed an issue where Chaos Warriors and Maulers - Marauders with Great Weapons, would not make patrolling sounds while on patrol.
  • Changed patrols to spawn further ahead of the players in the level to give players more time to react to their presence.
  • Fixed issues which would spawn some hordes in plain sight of players.
  • Fixed that Bulwarks - Marauders equipped with shields, were doing double the intended damage on their running attacks.
  • Fixed an issue where Bulwarks were using wrong stagger animation when being hit by a shield ignoring weapon, such as the flail.
  • Chaos Warriors and Maulers will now take into consideration whether a player is surrounded by enemies and then not initiate running attacks against them.
  • Reduced the attack range on Savages - Dual wielding Marauders, by around 13%.
  • Changed the way the AI-slot system handles Savages and Maulers. They now take up more space around players, in regards to other enemies. This makes them less prone to clipping into other enemies.
  • Fixes to the spawning of Specials. In order to reduce the chance of Specials spawning out of thin air, Specials should always find a hidden position before spawning or wait until such a position is found.
  • Increased the time between each Specials spawn when spawning coordinated strikes, to allow players a bit more reaction time when hearing spawning sounds. Increased to 2 second between each spawn, up from 1.
  • Increased the delay of Specials spawns after a Lord dies to 120, up from 40 seconds. Reduced the possibility of multiple Specials spawning at the same time when this duration is over. This will mitigate some of the issues on Into the Nest, after the lift after fighting Skarrik Spinemanglr. Being gunned down on the platform after defeating a Lord is neither fair nor balanced.
  • Poison Wind Globadiers now wait between 4 and 6 seconds before throwing their first globe.
  • Reduced the initial impact damage radius of Globadier globes from 4 to 2 meters. The gas clouds that lingers remain at a 4 meter radius.
  • Fixed an issue where sound effects from certain Career Skills would not follow the player character. This affected Mercenary Kruber, Handmaiden Kerillian, Witch Hunter Captain and Zealot Saltzpyre, and Unchained Sienna.
  • Tweaked Raider ragdoll force multiplier to make them react more to weapon impacts.
  • Fix an issue where Bulwarks used the wrong stagger animation when being hit by a weapon that bypasses shields, such as the flail.
Weapon Changes
  • For weapons with light smiting attacks, which are one-handed axes and the combo finishers on one-handed swords and falchion we added damage falloff to the second target of a cleave. This means we reduce the armor penetration and damage slightly, but increased cleave slightly.
One-handed axes
We’re buffed the one-handed axes with faster turnarounds and some balanced cleaves to deal with hordes.
  • Made light combo attacks faster by 0.1 seconds.
  • Increased the speed of push-followup attacks.
  • Tweaked the no-block window from push-followup attacks so that they should be able to block faster
  • Tightened the auto-block on hold for push-followup attacks. Now, just holding block should return to block faster. Changed to 0.45 seconds, down from 0.65.
Handguns
We’re reinforcing the handgun’s spot as a heavy hard-hitter, while at the same time trying to make its gunplay a bit more enjoyable by removing some of its randomness. We’ve also added a unique quality by making it able to snipe shielded enemies with its charged attack.
  • We’ve made tweaks to the way charging changes the spread of handguns. These changes will make it easier to get precis shots off when charging.
  • Increased damage vs Chaos Warriors to 0.5 up from 0.25, on close range. Increased crit damage vs Chaos Warriors to 0.6, up from 0.5.
  • Decreased stagger vs Armored enemies on close range.
  • Increased damage overall to 0.9, up from 0.75 on close range. And 0.8, up from 0.5 on long range.
  • Enemies wielding shields will no longer be able to block charged shots.
  • When killing a Marauder, a handgun will now be able to blow their legs off. Enjoy.
Crossbows
We’ve made changes to help the crossbow be more mobile and increase the skill ceiling a bit with improved spread across the board while giving it a charged shot quirk with extra crit chance. The crossbow now packs a little bit less punch but it will reward your well placed shots.
  • Reworked the spread on non-charged shots to be more accurate in general.
  • Increased damage to 0.6, up from 0.5 on close range. And 0.5, up from 0.35 on long range.
  • Reduced stagger slightly.
  • Charged crossbow shots now provides a +10% crit chance.
Falchion
As the falchion is a bit of a mix between an axe and a sword in its profile, these changes focus on the headshot rewarding aspects of its gameplay, rather than spamming light attacks. The core point of the armor penetration is to provide a good base damage to boost with the rather high headshot multiplier.
  • Reduced light attacks on armored enemies to 0.25, down from 0.5.
  • Removed damage to Chaos Warrior on light attacks, down from 0.5.
Flail
A slight simplification to streamline its damage profile across all attacks. The main strength still lies in its staggering, but it will now deal damage to armored enemies with all attacks.
  • Added armor penetration to the first two light attacks in combos. Now at 0.25.
Conflagration staff
  • Increased the lifetime of light attack fireballs to 1.5 seconds, up from 1.
Stability
  • Fixed a rare deadlock crash at boot that would occur on some PC configurations.
  • Fixed a crash that could occur when Ironbreaker Bardin activates his Career Skill and left the game while the taunt was active.
  • Fixed a rare crash that could occur while a player left the game while being grabbed by the Lifeleech.
  • Fixed a crash that could occur when a player left the game while Skarrik Spinemanglr spins in his defensive phase.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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Patch is fine, just pls don't realize how insane glaive is at leave it alone.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Patch is fine, just pls don't realize how insane glaive is at leave it alone.

I feel like the glaive isn't insane compared to the weapons other heroes have, it's just insane compared to her mostly shitty repertoire. I think the real issue is that they dramatically changed things and the rest of her weapons did not translate well at all. She also no longer has the incredibly broken trueflight bow to effectively remove random SV from the game.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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I feel like the glaive isn't insane compared to the weapons other heroes have, it's just insane compared to her mostly shitty repertoire. I think the real issue is that they dramatically changed things and the rest of her weapons did not translate well at all. She also no longer has the incredibly broken trueflight bow to effectively remove random SV from the game.

Well, the rest of her weapons do indeed suck yea, so maybe it's just relative. Spear is okay but has really piss poor armor pen and does almost nothing vs storms/cw. Glaive block+swing is such huge wave clear though and the heavy attack destroys armor, so really the rest of her weapons don't matter because glaive does it all.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Well, the rest of her weapons do indeed suck yea, so maybe it's just relative. Spear is okay but has really piss poor armor pen and does almost nothing vs storms/cw. Glaive block+swing is such huge wave clear though and the heavy attack destroys armor, so really the rest of her weapons don't matter because glaive does it all.

That's the biggest problem though, weapons that are bad against armor are generally just bad. Hell I didn't even know about glaive push attack because spamming lights gets the job done too. I mean Kruber effectively has three melee weapons that do it all, hammer, halberd, and exsword. Obviously nobody uses the hammer with halberd and exsword available, but it's still a top tier melee weapon.

How do people build their shades? Specifically the lvl 15 talent I'm kinda stumbling over because all three talents look viable. Increased backstab damage would mean faster boss shred, wider backstab angle would make it easier to quickly bring down elites, and ammo regen on backstabs just seems like pretty good utility, especially on ammo starved maps.
 

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
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Sharpnel all going around the target u say? Maybe this needs to be updated

FB_IMG_1524770199451.jpg
 
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Pyros

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The push attack has a faster animation so it's better than LMB spam, however it starts with the angled attack(3rd light attack in the chain), which has a shittier hitbox, and it forces you to hit twice otherwise it has an ungodly shit delay after the push attack. Personally I just LMB block. Glaive is one of the few weapons that work like VT1 in that if you block with the right timing, it attacks faster than if you just spam LMB, you can cancel the LMB first hit like halfway through and swing again, leading to very fast efficient swings as long as you have the right timing. I sometimes don't cancel also so I get the left to right sweep 2nd LMB to clear stuff that's further on the left.

It's definitely an excelent weapon but they'd need to buff other stuff a lot to nerf Glaive and not fuck melee Kerillian options. Dual Swords is ok on Shade, Spear is ok-ish on champion but really kinda sucks in Legend imo, Wardancer sword is the same, ok in champion but kinda suck in legend, other dual weapon options are kinda meh, 1H sword is surprisingly decent at everything but not great.

I think Spear and 2H sword could easily be fixed by simply increasing the armored mod as I said before, the weapons themselves are otherwise pretty neat, just need to make the charged attack do .7 damage on armored or so, instead of .25, then a headshot heavy from spear or 2H sword would do more damage than a non headshot glaive 2nd and it'd be kinda worth it if you can aim. Glaive would still be better overall, but it'd make the other 2 viable.

That's the biggest problem though, weapons that are bad against armor are generally just bad. Hell I didn't even know about glaive push attack because spamming lights gets the job done too. I mean Kruber effectively has three melee weapons that do it all, hammer, halberd, and exsword. Obviously nobody uses the hammer with halberd and exsword available, but it's still a top tier melee weapon.

How do people build their shades? Specifically the lvl 15 talent I'm kinda stumbling over because all three talents look viable. Increased backstab damage would mean faster boss shred, wider backstab angle would make it easier to quickly bring down elites, and ammo regen on backstabs just seems like pretty good utility, especially on ammo starved maps.

I get the ammo one. The 25% more damage is redundant and not that useful imo, it does a bit better boss damage sure but on ult you damage cap regardless so it doesn't do anything, and if you're not ulting you probably will have aggro most of the time, so the amount of additional damage is minimal. As for the angle one, since it doesn't specifiy numbers at all and there's no solid way to test, I just haven't bothered. Once mods are there and we can maybe test with a non moving target that does take backstab damage unlike dummies, it'll be interesting to see I think. That said I still think it wouldn't be worth it, backstabs are a pretty binary thing, either you have aggro or there's no room to move and you can't get them regardless, or you don't have aggro and you can get them pretty easily if there's room to move.

Ammo one is great because it'll sometimes gives you ammo, not that often, but every bit adds up so you can keep sniping specials. Also lets you basically refill most of your ammo on boss fights, and every ult usage can be like +5ammo if you backstab a horde or whatever(and then block and get your ass back in position). Between this and the headshot refund, I can generally sustain ammo fairly decently as long as I'm not wasting ammo shooting at stupid shit(like I'll often limit my stormvermin shooting to shielded ones that aren't aggroed yet, and then zerkers and specials, everything else I try to melee). It's pretty important in maps with bad ammo spawns like Into the Nest or if your group ends up with a bunch of people needing ammo like Shotgun bardin and Foot Knight and what not.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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They said they're thinking of things but yeah. Last time I opened a bunch of chests I got 2 red trinkets in the same chest, which obviously isn't super useful, especially since I already had a 33% curse 5%crit orange trinket before because I got lucky when I was rolling for something else. So while having a 2nd one with perfect stam regen+curse resist for when I play some specific classes like Slayer, the other is pretty much useless as I don't really need 10%cdr or 5%movespeed on anything really. I guess if I want to do some speedruns I can get a 5%movespeed 10%cdr one but you can roll a pretty good one with oranges anyway since movespeed is always 5%.

I haven't opened boxes in a while though, just stacking them for whenever they add more stuff, which hopefully should be next week's patch.

Yesterday I did the Grand Slam and cleared legend on one of each characters in a row(with a few fails mixed in cause pubs and stuff). Well not Saltz cause I don't like him, but did Shade > Unchained(kinda got carried, I was just testing out conflag unchained for fun) > Slayer > Foot Knight. Felt pretty nice, bunch of boss maps mixed in. Funny enough I was checking which maps I haven't completed yet on legend and I still need Against the Grain(which I could probably just speedrun) and Athel Yenlui. I've gotten these maps a lot of times but always fail them in pubs it seems. I've beaten all boss maps before but somehow not some fairly basic maps.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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Yeah they fucked up the fix for that, only fixed a minor version of the bug.

Been playing the beta build, it's way fucked anyway currently. Huntsman/Shade delete bosses in like 5-10seconds, for some reason they uncapped damage, which is super retarded for these classes(especially since they also made huntsman ult do crits again). There's a bunch of other shit not working properly, but there's a bunch of good changes too.

Unchained is pretty strong now on beta, they finally fixed her melee damage passive so you actually do ridiculous melee damage at high overcharge and they made it so you can use your ult when you're in the exploding animation from being overcharged so you can just charge up, melee shit to death and if you get hit because you fuck up, you can just ult and cancel the auto death anyway. Just wish mace wasn't such fucking garbage at trash clearing since it annihilates armor with unchained additional melee dmg. Like at half overcharge you one shot stormvermins with the overhead on headshots, which is pretty cool since that's basically Glaive/Exe sword level of damage.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I've come to the conclusion that the shade is basically unplayable in pugs, unless I'm just REALLY bad or missing something vital. And this is only on champion. The ability to instagib a single chaos warrior every now and then doesn't seem worth being terrible at hordes and not *that* much better at boss killing than anyone else considering that you lose all your bonus damage as soon as you pull aggro. I've had a few glory moments, like on Skittergate when the rat ogre just kinda stood there with his back to me and I shredded him for like 40% of his health in a single repeater clip. But god damn I just take SO much damage during hordes. Even trying to play ultrasafe and hiding behind teammates with good stagger weapons, swinging a couple times and dodging back, I still somehow always manage to get hit. Am I really supposed to just not help with hordes at all to keep from constantly being a drain on party resources, or am I supposed to just ditch the double daggers and glaive it up? Because if that's the case I just won't play Shade.

Incidentally, I'm also wondering if axe might be better than falchion on saltzpyre now due to how much easier it is to get headshots on armor with the charged attack. Feel like I'm mostly hitting the shoulder with falchion charged attacks.
 

Pyros

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You need to get used to VT2 hordes more probably, since they act fairly differently than in VT1. I rarely lose health to hordes on shade, and when I do get hit I just lose some temp health(unless obviously I was full, then I lose a bit and fill it with temp health). I often have the most melee kills from mowing down hordes too, I don't play like backline just hitting stragglers(although I do that when there's enough people covering the front and the horde is only coming one way due to our position).

I use mostly the glaive, but dual swords do hordes fine. Trying to do hordes with dual daggers is a pain in the dick however and I get hit a lot, sword and dagger is so so and I'll get hit more than usual. But Glaive or Dual Swords(the 2 "good" choices for shade) makes horde fairly easy. And that's on legend, champ you cleave more. That said if you're low power it might not be as easy.

As for axe, it's more or less just as good I guess. It's worse on hordes but maybe better on armored, I haven't played saltz since I hit 30 which was before the changes so don't know.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I actually had a series of pretty good runs as shade today, so I'll keep trying daggers for a little while longer before I give up and try swords.
 

Pyros

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Ah you were using daggers, then yeah it's fucky as hell against hordes. Daggers are quite frankly, not very good. They do ok armor damage but not great by any mean, the hitbox on the first heavy is fucking retarded when trying to hit a boss moving away from you making it bad for infiltrate a lot of the time and they're absolute garbage against hordes due to having both poor cleave and almost no stagger, with bad pushing angle. They kinda can still work on champion due to overleveling the content in terms of power, so you can kill stuff at a decent pace, but when it takes like 3hits to kill a fucking zombie guy on legend, you're basically doing virtually nothing if you don't have someone else actually controlling the horde(like 2H hammer dwarf) so you can hit stuff and not care about being hit back.

I'd highly recommend switching to dual swords as they are at least pretty good at hordes and offer similar playstyle(high mobility, fast attack speed, although less than daggers). They do even worse armored damage out of infiltrate however, so that can be an issue.

Personally I just use glaive on everything. This way even when I don't have infiltrate, I can one shot stormvermins, kill shielded ones easily and kill chaos warriors in ~2heavy attacks(from the front with headshots, from the back without). It doesn't feel very "Shade" however.

Also in the next patch if they don't change the fuckery they did in the beta build, Glaive will be miles better than other weapons for Shade. Hopefully they do change it since Glaive is already good and doesn't need to be THAT much better.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
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Shades ult needs to be a duration, over 2s or something, not next hit.
Also party comp or whatever. play shade with a footman kruber. he'll slaughter hordes, and chain CC bosses, for you to burn down.