Waco

a c i d.f l y

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It started when prohibition started, if I'm correct. And then never stopped.
Started before that. When they began imposing tariffs on alcohol imports after the Revolutionary war. Illegal importing became a thing because us rebel ass Americans, thus the IRS was formed and subsequently the ATF to combat illegal importing and collect taxes.

Apparently, the ATF got involved when margarine was invented, using their facilities to test its authenticity.

Prohibition. Then its appeal by the 21st amendment and dry/wet counties are created. You know, because splitting the country has always worked out well. Combat alcohol sales in dry areas, and collect taxes in wet.

1934, National Firearms act, used to combat mob activity - tax on certain weapons.
1938, Federal Firearms Act, Regulated interstate shipment of firearms and ammunition, and prohibited their receipt by felons; required dealer and manufacturer licensing; and imposed firearms marking and record-keeping requirements.
1968, Gun Control Act, combing the Alcohol Tax Unit with the National Firearms Unit

Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Street Act of 1968
Title XI of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970
1974 Gambling Taxation
1978 Cigarette Tax enforcement - ATF's Criminal and Regulatory Enforcement Divisions tackle additional responsibilities in 1978 when Congress passes a new law: interstate cigarette smuggling. Agents make the first case on February 25, 1979 in Rhode Island, beginning a campaign against cigarette bootlegging which defrauds the government of billions of dollars each year.

Yeah, all about paying big brother under the guise of citizen protection.

 
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a c i d.f l y

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This is what the ATF has listed for this event. Hah. OK.

On February 28, 1993, ATF Agents execute warrants at the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, Texas. Heavily armed cult members ambush the agents. The ensuing shoot-out claimed the lives of four ATF Special Agents. The September 1993 U.S. Department of Treasury Administrative Review concludes: “… the agency is made up of dedicated, committed and experienced professionals, who have regularly demonstrated sound judgment and remarkable courage in enforcing the law. ATF has a history of success in conducting complex investigations and executing dangerous and challenging law enforcement missions. That fine tradition, together with the line agents’ commitment to the truth and their courage and determination has enabled ATF to provide our country with a safer and more secure nation under law.”
 
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Warmuth

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I'm not inclined to disbelieve anything I just watched. I'm not exactly rooting for a fringe group of cultists but I don't think I can fault their response if the start of hostilities was accurately portrayed. Even if it wasn't, an entire fucking squadron of atf rolling in like that is completely uncalled for if no one on the property is involved in anything less than currently committing capital crimes.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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There is so much to love about our great nation. The ATF, however, doesn't make that list.
 
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Chanur

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The incompetence here by the ATF and FBI is staggering. So much was changed because of Waco. For starters the kids refused to leave because the first batch of kids that were freed were separated from the parents right in front of them. They no longer do this for this exact reason. Second they used a logic based approach in negotiations, which is pretty retarded as this is basically the most emotional and worst day of these peoples lives. Logic doesn't really play into it. They looked at past failures and analyzed if this emotions driven style would have yielded better results and have switched to that and still use it today.

Ideal and easily achievable out come would have been to nab Koresh in town and lock him up for ever for the kiddy diddling. Those people were paralyzed with out him as most cults are. Dude is a grade A scumbag, but that does not give the ATF the right to roll up with an army and open fire on women and children who were in fact the victims. Hope they rot in hell.
 
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Zapatta

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Why the fuck there's even an Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms government agency in existence at all is fucking mind blowing.
It started when prohibition started, if I'm correct. And then never stopped.

They literally exist to do the retarded YOLO shit for the FBI so the FBI can say 'Wasnt Me!' when super stupid goes sideways. They are the retarded little brother of the Feds that get talked into eating roadkill for $5.
 
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Zapatta

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If you look back this all started with Cocaine Cowboy shoot outs in Florida, cops with a revolver and a pump remington werent gonna chase down columbian Scar Face hit squads, they started giving them Mini-14s and M-16s. From then it was game on, Clinton started militarizing the Fed LEOs with military hardware because he was a cunt like that , Bush upped it even more with all the left over shit from Desert Storm he decided not to let rot and handed it out everyone including State PDs. Obama didnt think it was a bad idea and kept that train moving. You never ever saw APCs in the hands of Fed LEOs and PDs before Clinton. He basically said Fuck Your Posse Comitatus. Only upside is most PDs dont have a budget to maintain any of this shit so they dont pull it out and flex it as much anymore. But once someone gives you kevlar, tanks and full auto weapons, of course you are going to look for opportunities to get those toys out so you can play with them.
 
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a c i d.f l y

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The balance used to favor the mob. All the way up to the late 70's. It swung wildly out of control when uzis got onto the streets as you said during the Cocaine Cowboy era, as a result of Vietnam military arms availability. The massive police force deployment as a result of the mall killings, and 1986 machine gun law flipped the balance on its head.

All because the government "needed" money from its people and chose to tax booze. The irony of the tax being the result of fighting against taxes (or specifically taxation without representation).

This shit is bone deep in America.
 
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Hoss

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I cant watch that shit, I met Bo Gritz and later Randy Weaver. The fact the Clinton government got away with Ruby Ridge and went on to do Waco is in the top 3 reasons the Boogaloo should have happened when I was in my 20s.


Ruby ridge started under bush Sr. Cannot remember the exact timeline re when the shooting started but the trumped up weapon charges they used as an excuse to try to coerce him into spying on white supremacist groups was definitely under bush as was the million dollar a day spy satellite flyovers of his compound.


So where is this? I thought it was Netflix but I cannot find it.
 

Zapatta

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Ruby ridge started under bush Sr. Cannot remember the exact timeline re when the shooting started but the trumped up weapon charges they used as an excuse to try to coerce him into spying on white supremacist groups was definitely under bush as was the million dollar a day spy satellite flyovers of his compound.


So where is this? I thought it was Netflix but I cannot find it.

Its Netflix.
 

Zapatta

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Biggest irony is Randy Weaver was studying criminal justice hoping to be an FBI agent before he decided the government was garbage, nogs were ruining the country and he just wanted to live off the grid like little house on the prairie.
 
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Hoss

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I didn't know that. The biggest irony that I knew about in the case was that weaver knew it was a federal agent that he sawed off the shotgun for and believed it was legal to cut it for him since he was law enforcement. The agent brought him the gun and said cut it here. If he hadn't known it was law enforcement he wouldn't have cut the barrel (According to him).

He knew the agents because they had already approached him to spy for them and they were on speaking terms until the day they killed his son.

Did you ever see the communications robot they sent to talk to him? It had a phone with about a 3 inch cord mounted on top of a shotgun barrel. There was no way to talk without putting your face in front of the barrel. So naturally he refused to talk to them and they used that as an excuse to escalate shit. I can't remember if I saw a picture of it or just read descriptions.
 
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Zapatta

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I didn't know that. The biggest irony that I knew about in the case was that weaver knew it was a federal agent that he sawed off the shotgun for and believed it was legal to cut it for him since he was law enforcement. The agent brought him the gun and said cut it here. If he hadn't known it was law enforcement he wouldn't have cut the barrel (According to him).

He knew the agents because they had already approached him to spy for them and they were on speaking terms until the day they killed his son.

Did you ever see the communications robot they sent to talk to him? It had a phone with about a 3 inch cord mounted on top of a shotgun barrel. There was no way to talk without putting your face in front of the barrel. So naturally he refused to talk to them and they used that as an excuse to escalate shit. I can't remember if I saw a picture of it or just read descriptions.

What really started it all.

In 1984, Randy Weaver and his neighbor Terry Kinnison had a dispute over a $3,000 land deal. Kinnison lost the ensuing lawsuit and was ordered to pay Weaver an additional $2,100 in court costs and damages. Kinnison wrote letters to the FBI, Secret Service, and county sheriff alleging Weaver had threatened to kill the Pope, the President, and governor of Idaho.[
 
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Hoss

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Lol. Who hasn't gotten drunk and threatened to kill the governor of Idaho?
 
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TJT

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Biggest irony is Randy Weaver was studying criminal justice hoping to be an FBI agent before he decided the government was garbage, nogs were ruining the country and he just wanted to live off the grid like little house on the prairie.

It takes a special kind of idiot, or federal law enforcement, to make an issue of these kind of people. They go out of their way to live in their survivalist compounds out in BFE off the grid and they associate with nobody. Hoard guns ammo and wait for the end times or whatever the fuck they do. Being a white supremacists nutjob preparing for the coming race war is not a crime.

Local law enforcement stopped bothering with them long ago. Because they knew very well that deciding to get these guys for some bullshit for the supposed greater good was guaranteed to end with a bunch of your cops dead. This applies in many rural parts of the USA. It's just one of those things that isn't worth it.

I mean, yes it is illegal to create those shotgun shell mousetrap booby traps but do you really want to die to some redneck tinker shit? When the nutjob fam lives out on 50 totally isolated acres, eating squirrels and otherwise not bothering anyone?

1588412292103.png
 
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goishen

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The US government doesn't admit it's wrong. That would be like, ethical and shit.
 
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Breakdown

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I don’t even want to read past page one with you edgelord faggots defending a cult leader.

do you fAggots remember this was a few years after Jim Jones? You don’t think the piles of dead kool aid bodies played a part in this? You don’t think the government saw another cult leader amassing guns and building a giant compound off the grid and think, fuck we better get ahead of this before CNN is filming a bunch of dead kids?
 
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Gavinmad

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I don’t even want to read past page one with you edgelord faggots defending a cult leader.

Maybe if you knew how to read you wouldn't look like such a dumbass by claiming that's what's happening here.
 
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Breakdown

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Maybe if you knew how to read you wouldn't look like such a dumbass by claiming that's what's happening here.

sure it isn’t.

I’ll meet you guys in a few years in the thread for the show they make about Cliven and Ammon Bundy so you muh freedom fags can talk about how they were in the right
 
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