War Dogs PvPvP 100 Person Tactical Shooter

Xevy said:

I don't think the safest jobs are the most profitable, they're just the least risk. You can FOB/Logi an entire game with one kit and make 70k. Or you can go ham mode infantry and make 120k with 4 kits with a deathball.

I only played Day 1 Season 2, but I taxi'd and it took about ~12 deploys from people to make my money back on my chopper and then another 12 or so to get my real kit money back. Think it was like a 16k start and it took me honestly 20ish+ minutes to get all my money back because I could only taxi 2-4 people at a time.

Meanwhile if I drop hotzone deathball off the rip I can probably kill 5-15 people before I have to respawn.

Heli birds are designed to take out the deathball because it's target-rich areas in generally open areas. They should just be strafe runners, not hover-gunners like they are now. Having them essentially sit above a FOB and just kill BOBs without ever moving until they need to refuel is bad design. A gunner bird should just rip through the mass of balled up infantry and harass the rez pile, not pick solos off at will. It's honestly probably balanced to what it should be right now, but chopper cucks will always cry when they have to use more than 5 choppers in an entire game.

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Devils advocate w/ those numbers. That's 4kits I assume you mean geared, so 20k? So 60k for the 3 lost, puts you on par with the logi. If you mean 120k after costs, that's impressive because thats a 170-180k or so match then, to which I say not quite everyone is going to be able to pull of those kinds of numbers.

I do think you make more if you are semi decent at yknow actually fighting. I did like 80k bob the other day, lots of oil towers and mortars destroyed via mortar, building etc, I think it makes a lot more than truck driving. But that said, it's far more fun I think if I get some decent lives running 7k demo missions, or as long as we have an actual front to fight in, going in the frontlines. (Last game I had we somehow won but blue was like 4 fobs, maybe 5-6 people that weren't in a fob)

I'm kinda ok/would agree with wanting the super powerful stuff to need high skill ceiling to really make money, or else like Tarkov or anything else, the sweats just run away with it and can bring in orders of magnitude more rewards than even your random above average but not amazing player. On the other hand, for a "do what you want" kind of game, there's plenty of support or other tasks that are a combo of far too risky, or otherwise don't reward you near the same as just playing CallofDuty/sniping/being a really good bob.

Some examples of things that get neglected (aside from random items like prybar etc) Wolf? I've seen a couple unarmed, maybe one other armed. No one fucks w/ them for good reason.
Ural defenders etc? Ya I've seen maybe a handful mostly all season 1 doing some fob storms/youtube clowncar clips. Right now even gun humvee's seem pretty rare.

In a few discords I've seen arguing about playing supply truck. Ural/suv/whatever with a crate in the back. Apparently you can buy with them not dropped. But as much as people talk about doing that I've never seen it. I see an odd dropped crate usually with nothing interesting. I tried it a few times, either no one runs up, or you dont have interesting enough ammo, the good meds are locked behind a longer grind so the normal logi/supply people can't do it. The few times I got requests, they sat milling around the fob and never bought the requested supplies except for a couple times I got base RPG'rs that would pickup rounds.

Agreed on rapid circling heli's problem, I still would like to see pilots take more but still reduced damage, ideally as silly as it looks highly pushing them towards wearing T3. I dont know why they made HMG's take so damn long to build, little tricky finding a not exposed but good FOV to try and ambush a heli. I havn't seen it, but a sub 100m littlebird will have a very bad day if it isn't able to immediately plant a rocket on the MG>.

Yeah early or by choice cheap kits is a bit different math, I was assuming T3 or at least usually running a lot of $ in meds or secondaries ie defib and afaks, handful of c4 or otherwise hauling something else extra. Ammo cost sure went up last season when I was using AP. Even HP is a decent bump in cost just got aggravated in situations where toes are unavailable.

Though that kinda bumps into, running those pricey kits (aside from like T4) really gaining all that much reward than just the modest kit. Ya ya m4 etc are nice but Galil is more than serviceable.

Though I do really really hate medic gun, at least mp5 not that far away. But poor support doesn't really have a good weapon, fucking pump shotty, or LMG's that are so nerfed and relatively awful outside very narrow cases.

BrotherWu said:

Yeah, I knew that was what you meant. My question to the devs would be why design those types of activities to trend toward being losing propositions financially? Why are the safest jobs the most profitable?

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Honest answer is I don't think the devs understand player motive vs 'their vision' of how players play.

I don't think they really know what they are doing and so making best guesses on what their ideas are is very hard, cause it doesn't make sense. What little I have gathered leads me to believe their vision is of you pulling out things for the situation. As someone mentioned, big infantry ball in the zone and your guys pushing in keep getting crushed? Grab the little bird and mulch it. Enemy has a lot of armor? Get the Rocket bird. Big Fob all blockaded up and calling the drills over and over? Get the Rocket bird and arty tank.

Problem is, this assumes a certain level of team work and a willingness to risk a personal loss in order to get the team ahead. However, all the incentives and mechanics of the game push against this. On a smaller scale you see this with the Verba and to a lesser extent the MAAW. Carrying a Verba costs you your 3 slot for a 1 shot anti air weapon. Having one in the zone to shoot the possible AH6 that shows up is good. But... who wants to carry it vs medic revive or spotting tool? Sure, if you hit something you come out ahead on money but its a one and done thing. Revives and spots keep paying over and over. Same to a lesser extent with the MAAW. It costs a slot and ammo eats up your med and rifle ammo slots. When you need it its super important to have it so the tank doesn't just roll you. But... most the time its just dead weight that isn't earning you money. I get the impression the devs think of organized cooperative play (prolly cause thats how they play in house) but all the game mechanics teach players to be selfish as possible.

Its why one change I would really like to see is the ability to make squads and share rewards within the squad. Have a sniper team with a guy pulling security? The security guy is super important, but 90% of the time is doing jack all and making no money. Got a premade death ball? This lets you share rewards with the guy carrying your AA or AT so he's not getting hosed and has the stuff in case its needed. Obviously it would need to be playtested and limited in ways to try and avoid abuse, but I like the concept behind it at least.

My complaint with that vision is that unless APC close, or a handy trustworthy pilot assuming an infantry centric counter and not a vehicle. It's requiring voluntarily suiciding home. I dont think you could ever balance or be a good idea to have in field vehicle purchases, but look at repair/refuel station thats never used. Replace that with a shop that costs normal amount or a little more for most items. Restrict it offering high level armor etc if you must, and make it a negative/convenience fee that it costs FOB mechanical or ammo or supply on top of a cash cost. Gives you reason for riskier more forward fobs, gives you a reasonable time frame to try and respond to stuff.

Finally got to take a lv4 helmet.... yeah could see snipers still able to use it other than fog from running but if camping I dont think it stops it. Playing assault.... no way. Also swear the suit stops even the jog you can do while heavy. Either was was fairly fun running around in the armor/helmet I found in a fob. Free gun killed a couple then took their AP galil on a spree. Only 10 or so points left so wasn't long.

BrotherWu said:

So, Bulkhead just announced they banned about 185k players for cheating, 5% of their players. They're taking a review beating from the rang rangs. Balls of steel.

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Pubg still bans something like 25% of its player base monthly. Ive gotten to the point where I dislike gaming due to the cheating and assholes.

I'm sure thats just the percentage they are able to catch as well.

Hekotat said:

Pubg still bans something like 25% of its player base monthly. Ive gotten to the point where I'm to the point where I dislike gaming due to the cheating and assholes.

I'm sure thats just the percentage they are able to catch as well.

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I've increasingly gone to pve or single player despite inherently preferring competition

Sludig said:

I've increasingly gone to pve or single player despite inherently preferring competition

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Well, this is good and highlights what we were just discussing. What they did to those hackers, lol.

Definitely watch it, it's the first time I've seen devs fuck with cheaters and take their money.

Hekotat said:

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See I always say South Americans are scourge but everyone seems to ignore them. 2nd only to surprisingly African's. Figured China#1 but may be bright down on average with low % Japan or something

I am going to be frank. I listened to their video and all their talk about cheating and to me, its all just PR and spin. The video of them going onto the boosted server, resetting all the accounts, filming it and laughing? Yeah. Sure. They did that. I believe 100% they did. But why?

Then they say they banned all those accounts permanently. So... you went into their server to fuck with them and reset them and get video for your PR. Sure, it was prolly fun but considering development time and the fact the devs have said they are taking all of December off... Yeah. To me its just a PR move. Ban them, why waste your time in game using a recon scope to target them and reset them. Why do you even need to use a scope to do that? Fuck, why do you even need to connect to the server and shit once you get the names?

So call me jaded cause I am, but the Wardogs devs seem /way/ more interested in their rock star, counter AAA image and making a break with their previous dev history under whatever AAA owned them before then they are with actual meat in the soup so to speak. I still point to the lead dev's "Drinking on stream" gimmick where he very obviously had a beer hidden under a water bottle and was making over the top 'attempts' to disguise it. I mean sure. Have a beer during an important PR interview. I legit am ok with it. 'Hiding' it cause of streaming TOS or whatever is just fake and gay. "We're the rebel devs, don't buy our game, the industry doesn't want you to buy our game and we don't either if you are not our kind.'

Yeah. Its all marketing and bullshit. And their video about Season 3 does a lot to make excuses, shift blame, point at players being the bad guys etc. I look at their % of cheaters by region and again, to me that's just bullshit thrown on a screen to make it look like they are doing stuff. Notice how a lot of the bans are from places that lost access to Official servers with ping limits? How many of those bans are people using ping spoofers and VPNs to actually play the game vs rage hackers from those regions vs the 'sneaky cheaters'. And what about griefers? No mention there and they are just as bad.

Everything they do feels so performative to me. I'll check out S3 cause why not. I like the concept and feel of the game and I've already payed for it so why not, but these devs come off as more concerned about PR and image than performance and results.

I'm trying to wait for the S3 patch notes to make any decisions on where my time is spent. As a driver, wanting the battlefield esque experience. This season was a giant waste of time with tank/gepard/50wolf all being very rarely pay offs to cost. I'm okay not making oodles of money, but it's a slog just to break even and really requires squad. Vs routinely making 50k just playing infantry which as I've said before is the most polished experience.

Unless they suprise me, I'm probably shelving it until next summer hoping it's just like Tarkov and needs quite a bit of stew time. Or failing that, at least the early adopter price was cheap enough for time I've had.

Mao said:

But why?

I look at their % of cheaters by region and again, to me that's just bullshit thrown on a screen to make it look like they are doing stuff. Notice how a lot of the bans are from places that lost access to Official servers with ping limits? How many of those bans are people using ping spoofers and VPNs to actually play the game vs rage hackers from those regions vs the 'sneaky cheaters'. And what about griefers? No mention there and they are just as bad.

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because it's funny and/or fun.. just a shot in the dark, but I don't doubt the average age of the developers in bulkhead is around 35. The sorta shtick with a twist is the same shit Tigole did for Overwatch(possibly the originator of the method), Nikita does for Tarkov, or Guangguang does for Marvel Rivals. I can't say I feel that Bulkhead is fake n gay.. to me the person/s that is fake and gay is Joshua Mills from Rainbow 6 Seige, Ziggler from Marathon, and maybe Shely from Diablo 4; though Shely looks like he was put up there via gunpoint. Investor's dildo shoved deep.

I doubt the numbers include ping spoofers and vpn.. I don't think they'll even be banned, as that's not really considered cheating. There is a lot of pushback that the pingcap is a bad thing, esp in places like Oceanic(which I agree, love playing with NZ and UK). Though I agree they're not really showing a lot of their data, just the "surface.." and a lot of what they're saying doesn't fully make sense because of the nature of how hack dev work aka constant cat/mouse of exploiting.. it just seems they were aiming at some kind of honeypot method.. the blatant rage cheaters seemed get checked relatively fast, atleast my lobby, and the closet cheaters are the ones getting fucked now. presumably. iirc they've mentioned inklings of ai but I don't really know, valve has been rolling that out currently and its been interesting.. but working?

As far as regions though.. I play a metric fuckton of counter-strike(15k+hrs in csgo/cs2 not counting 1.6<), tarkov(12k), and pretty much all the fps's.. as i'm sure most of us.. and while i'm on the eastcoast.. I don't run into a lot of "chinese cheaters." Instead, I run into a lot of people who have chinese names and when you actually talk to them; more often they're pretty fucking American.. hit them with a wo shi ni baba, dai lu mao zi, or xiao ni ma and you will find out quickly.. But with that said, particularly in counter-strike.. the probability of a guy who has a thick latin accent or any of the south of the border countries in their steam profile goes through the roof. The amount of "i'm cheating because you're cheating" I ran into was literally nightly prior to the vacnet(valve ai ac) rollout a month back.

Sludig said:

I'm trying to wait for the S3 patch notes to make any decisions on where my time is spent. As a driver, wanting the battlefield esque experience. This season was a giant waste of time with tank/gepard/50wolf all being very rarely pay offs to cost. I'm okay not making oodles of money, but it's a slog just to break even and really requires squad. Vs routinely making 50k just playing infantry which as I've said before is the most polished experience.

Unless they suprise me, I'm probably shelving it until next summer hoping it's just like Tarkov and needs quite a bit of stew time. Or failing that, at least the early adopter price was cheap enough for time I've had.

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What I glean by their design is they seem to have the balance of vehicles built around combat vehicles being money sinks, and transport vehicles being the money maker.

Run supplies and people to make money, then go do your combat runs and slowly lose it unless you are on a hot streak. I mentioned before I think that is how they are trying to 'balance' vehicles and limit their usage. Their idea is you are doing transport work and then when needed you pull out a combat vehicle for something specific. Blow up the tank, interdict logi, whatever, then go back to being a working stiff.

It makes sense on paper and is kind of a logical way to go about it. However, none of your pilots or drivers are going to be happy with it cause they want to fly their mini/rocket birds cause its fun and the 'play your way' advertisement tells them they should be able to do that.

It brings me back to I think the devs play in their sandbox and have their idea of how the game should be played and quite honestly are not really no life gamers themselves and so are a bit out of touch with how people will actually behave in game. I think S2 and all the stupidity with transport leveling and the Blue Team Bonus shows that.

gauze said:

because it's funny and/or fun.. just a shot in the dark, but I don't doubt the average age of the developers in bulkhead is around 35. The sorta shtick with a twist is the same shit Tigole did for Overwatch(possibly the originator of the method), Nikita does for Tarkov, or Guangguang does for Marvel Rivals. I can't say I feel that Bulkhead is fake n gay.. to me the person/s that is fake and gay is Joshua Mills from Rainbow 6 Seige, Ziggler from Marathon, and maybe Shely from Diablo 4; though Shely looks like he was put up there via gunpoint. Investor's dildo shoved deep.

I doubt the numbers include ping spoofers and vpn.. I don't think they'll even be banned, as that's not really considered cheating. There is a lot of pushback that the pingcap is a bad thing, esp in places like Oceanic(which I agree, love playing with NZ and UK). Though I agree they're not really showing a lot of their data, just the "surface.." and a lot of what they're saying doesn't fully make sense because of the nature of how hack dev work aka constant cat/mouse of exploiting.. it just seems they were aiming at some kind of honeypot method.. the blatant rage cheaters seemed get checked relatively fast, atleast my lobby, and the closet cheaters are the ones getting fucked now. presumably. iirc they've mentioned inklings of ai but I don't really know, valve has been rolling that out currently and its been interesting.. but working?

As far as regions though.. I play a metric fuckton of counter-strike(15k+hrs in csgo/cs2 not counting 1.6<), tarkov(12k), and pretty much all the fps's.. as i'm sure most of us.. and while i'm on the eastcoast.. I don't run into a lot of "chinese cheaters." Instead, I run into a lot of people who have chinese names and when you actually talk to them; more often they're pretty fucking American.. hit them with a wo shi ni baba, dai lu mao zi, or xiao ni ma and you will find out quickly.. But with that said, particularly in counter-strike.. the probability of a guy who has a thick latin accent or any of the south of the border countries in their steam profile goes through the roof. The amount of "i'm cheating because you're cheating" I ran into was literally nightly prior to the vacnet(valve ai ac) rollout a month back.

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Didn't see your post or I woulda answered and not double posted, but yeah. I play Dota. SA is the curse placed upon the west and 'jajajajaja' is a common thing. We have a shit load of problems with South American players boosting, smurfing, cheating etc. Russians too oddly, but "Build the wall and make Gaben pay for it." was a thing in Dota for awhile.

And by 'fake and gay' I don't mean they aren't doing things to combat cheaters etc. I just don't think they are being entirely honest. Its all marketing and spin. They are crafting a narrative and a persona and are selling their game and credibility through that, and that persona is the lil scrappy badass 'fight me bro' studio that the AAA studios want to see fail. They've said as much in marketing and had their various mouthpieces really pushing that narrative at launch. The whole ending of the Season 3 promo video leans into that too imo. "We're under attack, help us fight against all the people wrongfully attacking us." However the video asking for reviews landing before the 'cheater review bomb'.

The reviews I see skimming negative are valid. Ping caps making it unplayable on officials for many regions, and my own friends saying the game is good idea but needs a lot more work etc.

I'm getting overly wordy as is my habit, so I'll sum up. I find all the people buying into the 'lil studio that could is giving everyone the middle finger' spin to be absolute bullshit. It seems to be working on a large number of people so good choice by marketing. But I am not seeing the data or dev changes to back it up and at this point I'm left to think its a lot of bluster, short on actual bang.