Falstaff
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Good article about how basically no one wants Obama to strike against Syria
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-syria/279154/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-syria/279154/
War with Syria
- Thread starter AladainAF
- Start date
Neither. Both.
Unless the US gets slapped, they will continue this farce in front of everyone, as they've been doing since the end of WW2. Shit's gotta stop and the US has never shown any form of self control. Take, take, take. I'd like to see the Russians and Chinese say no.
We need our medicine. We don't give it ourselves.
Plus, chemical weapons are now the "red line" for casus belli now? We don't even care WHO used them, just that they were used. This is total and complete bullshit, just like Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and the like.
The F-117 Nighthawk (a stealth plane) was shot down by a S-125 (SAM system from early 1960s) back in 1999.
S-300 is several orders of magnitude more sophisticated and it will be going up against F-18s and F-16s. Unl;ess US only uses cruise missiles, there might be a good chance that a plane might get shot down
S-300 is several orders of magnitude more sophisticated and it will be going up against F-18s and F-16s. Unl;ess US only uses cruise missiles, there might be a good chance that a plane might get shot down
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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This is when centrist viewpoints become the biased one, when the far left and far right can agree on the same thing, the centrists become the odd man out.
"Ideologically diverse critics warn that unilateral intervention would be risky, unpopular, and a transgression against domestic and international law."
"Ideologically diverse critics warn that unilateral intervention would be risky, unpopular, and a transgression against domestic and international law."
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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That operator accomplished a difficult thing and was very skilled, he put the radar in wide band mode that allowed some signal to reflect and be seen that way. However it's a very vague signal and not enough for a lock. He fired the missile in the general direction of the craft then switch to CCTV mode and visually guided the rocket near the plane, then self destruct detonated the missile, it was a pretty hard thing to pull off. It wasn't like a "fire and forget" kind of thing that's for sure.
Just like a hot girl who no one corrects bc ev1 wants to fuck em. Ev1 knows the chick is full-retard, but no one cares. When the bitch is old and busted, the truth will reveal itself.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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I just don't see how this would play out like you think it would. Let's say the US launches a conventional air strike against Syria and a few planes get shot down from these missile systems. Do you expect the US to tuck tail and run away? It's one thing for US soldiers to get killed on the ground from IEDs, snipers and shitty situations. It's totally different when it comes to a technological arms race and America would love to have someone to fight on that front.
The S-300s aren't in Syria yet - although if any kind of strike does happen I imagine the Russians will move forward the delivery date, as retribution. However, the minute those missiles arrive the Israelis will try to take them out, with no regard for consequences. They simply won't allow Hezbollah to get their hands on that kind of weaponry.
I don't know how it would play out, honestly.
I know that the US media and public are very loss adverse. The US military needs a solid no-fly zone if it's going to do anything other than lob cruise missiles. If all 0bama wants is to throw some rocks at Assad's forces, then things should go as fine. Anything more and it gets very tricky.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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It sounds like you're rightfully annoyed that the US projects its power and have dreamt up some kind of fantasy where enough US soldiers die to enact a type of humility. I think you'll have to keep dreaming because A: Syria probably won't have the SAMs in time to use them, B: It's dubious about whether the US military would lose assets to them and C: If we started losing planes to Syria we'd start taking it seriously enough to really fuck Syria up.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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In a DW interview, former US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski denounces what appears to be imminent military action against Syria, saying the US administration lacks a strategy for the region.
"It seems to me that the problem in the Syrian case is part of a larger dilemma regarding the upheaval in the Middle East. The solution to that upheaval cannot be based entirely on military power nor should it be dependent almost exclusively on the Western powers. I am struck how eager Great Britain and France appear to be in favor of military action. And I am also mindful of the fact that both of these two powers are former imperialist, colonialist powers in that region.
Given the contemporary reality of what I have called in my writings "Global Political Awakening," a policy of force based primarily on Western and in some cases former colonial powers does not seem to me a very promising avenue to an eventual solution to the regional problem."
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Kinda funny the western powers can't be as casually aggressive because too many people read news on the internet now. Lying doesn't work as well when people can check articles from around the globe that spout many different viewpoints.
"It seems to me that the problem in the Syrian case is part of a larger dilemma regarding the upheaval in the Middle East. The solution to that upheaval cannot be based entirely on military power nor should it be dependent almost exclusively on the Western powers. I am struck how eager Great Britain and France appear to be in favor of military action. And I am also mindful of the fact that both of these two powers are former imperialist, colonialist powers in that region.
Given the contemporary reality of what I have called in my writings "Global Political Awakening," a policy of force based primarily on Western and in some cases former colonial powers does not seem to me a very promising avenue to an eventual solution to the regional problem."
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Kinda funny the western powers can't be as casually aggressive because too many people read news on the internet now. Lying doesn't work as well when people can check articles from around the globe that spout many different viewpoints.
I haven't dreamt any such fantasy. I just don't believe in the power of the US military.
If Russia wants them to have the SAMs, they'll have them. Which is my point entirely: Russia is in a prime spot to either help or hinder our actions in Syria. If it is their want, they could make doing ANYTHING in Syria miserable for the US without getting their hands dirty.
I also doubt the US population will have the stomach for anything serious in Syria if things turn sour. If we turn up the heat, as you seem to think we'd do, all that would do is to embolden Iran, Russia and China.
In reality, the US's best move is no move. Do nothing. We had a chance early in the conflict to get Assad out, but we didn't and the rebels turned into another fucked up faction. There is no move for us, so why are we so hellbent on slapping Assad?
This right here folks. Troof
Also, if you think about it, if this turns in to WW3, the US would be the bad guys.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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well you can get conspiratorial and say it's oil, central banking driven, globalism, ect ect.
or maybe it's Clintonian; remember Clinton did missile attacks on Iraq around the time of the Monica Lewinsky/impeachment scandal and many people seemed to think it was politically motivated to give the press something else to talk about than scandals at home.
Distraction from Clinton impeachment scandal:
Some critics of the Clinton administration expressed concern over the timing of Operation Desert Fox. The four-day bombing campaign occurred at the same time the U.S. House of Representatives was conducting the impeachment hearing of President Clinton.
Clinton was impeached on December 19, the last day of the bombing campaign. A few months earlier, similar criticism was leveled during Operation Infinite Reach, wherein missile strikes were ordered against suspected terrorist bases in Sudan and Afghanistan, on August 20. The missile strikes began three days after Clinton was called to testify before a grand jury during the Lewinsky scandal and his subsequent nationally televised address later that evening in which Clinton admitted having an inappropriate relationship.
The Operation Infinite Reach attacks became known as "Monica's War" among TV news people, due to the timing. ABC-TV announced to all stations that there would be a special report following Lewinsky's testimony before Congress, then the special report was pre-empted by the report of the missile attacks. The combination of the timing of that attack and Operation Desert Fox led to accusations of a Wag the Dog situation.
Some critics of the Clinton administration expressed concern over the timing of Operation Desert Fox. The four-day bombing campaign occurred at the same time the U.S. House of Representatives was conducting the impeachment hearing of President Clinton.
Clinton was impeached on December 19, the last day of the bombing campaign. A few months earlier, similar criticism was leveled during Operation Infinite Reach, wherein missile strikes were ordered against suspected terrorist bases in Sudan and Afghanistan, on August 20. The missile strikes began three days after Clinton was called to testify before a grand jury during the Lewinsky scandal and his subsequent nationally televised address later that evening in which Clinton admitted having an inappropriate relationship.
The Operation Infinite Reach attacks became known as "Monica's War" among TV news people, due to the timing. ABC-TV announced to all stations that there would be a special report following Lewinsky's testimony before Congress, then the special report was pre-empted by the report of the missile attacks. The combination of the timing of that attack and Operation Desert Fox led to accusations of a Wag the Dog situation.
There's a million and one "reasons" why our country does what it does, but in the end, it's not the why, but the end result. We keep coming up with excuses to why we have to do this or that, but in end, our choice is always pro-military, pro-corporations and very much against the wishes of the people.
