We Dont Need No Stinking Priests - Spirituality, prayer, meditation, new age, gnostisicm, consciousness

Julian The Apostate

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Buddy, I hate to break it to you, but almost no one is ever going to just watch a 10 minute video. Cad was asking for a tl;dr, and he was right to do so.
I made the claim that the mind alone can effect a random number generator. That is the TL: DR. This is a true claim. If you want a description and explanation of the experiments that were run, watch the video. He wasn’t looking for a TL: DR, he said he was looking for proof. Sorry, but I’m just not goi g to be able to explain how quantum fields of consciousness work in a paragraph nor do I or anyone else fully understand them nor will I ever be able to satisfy the shifting goals posts of what he would consider “proof”.
 
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TJT

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I think there will be a gradual shift more and more towards mysticism and cultivating a personal relationship with God in all the major world religions as time goes on. God Lives in each and every one of us, there is absolutely no need for religious leaders or cult figures. We can all communicate with him on our own. In fact, I think it is extremely dangerous to sub-contract out our spiritual guidance to other men and women and it leaves us vulnerable to manipulation. Meditation and other more traditionally Eastern practices will be incorporated into Western religions as the general public learns more and more about consciousness, the fundamental nature of reality, and the fact that we are all One.
This is a very naive understanding. God does live in each and every one of us. That part is absolutely true.

Are there people out there who are more devoted to God than you? More intelligent than you? Wiser than you?

If there are people who devote all of their energy to understanding God are they not worth listening to? Is anyone out there worthy of being your teacher about anything? As the principle applies to any subject.
 

moonarchia

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I made the claim that the mind alone can effect a random number generator. That is the TL: DR. This is a true claim. If you want a description and explanation of the experiments that were run, watch the video. He wasn’t looking for a TL: DR, he said he was looking for proof. Sorry, but I’m just not goi g to be able to explain how quantum fields of consciousness work in a paragraph nor do I or anyone else fully understand them nor will I ever be able to satisfy the shifting goals posts of what he would consider “proof”.
If you are unable to properly articulate or defend a statement, just admit to it when questioned. Offloading it to someone who only you consider an authority on the subject renders it a moot point. That is part of talking about philosophy and religion. Your POV is yours, and you know it's not one people are going to share. If you don't want to be challenged on it, don't be putting it on FOH.

Cad is a lawyer. He is argumentative for a living. He was being civil about it. If you can't handle the gentlest push back, you may want to rethink this enterprise.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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If you are unable to properly articulate or defend a statement, just admit to it when questioned. Offloading it to someone who only you consider an authority on the subject renders it a moot point. That is part of talking about philosophy and religion. Your POV is yours, and you know it's not one people are going to share. If you don't want to be challenged on it, don't be putting it on FOH.

Cad is a lawyer. He is argumentative for a living. He was being civil about it. If you can't handle the gentlest push back, you may want to rethink this enterprise.
I don’t have to change anything. I can tell the difference between someone who wants real discussion and the difference between some Jew lawyer with an axe to grind because I called him an idiot in the Epstein thread last week. On to ignore you go too. You haven’t added to the discussion but have only white- knighted shit posters. Fuck off.

The TL: DR for the random number generator is that if you put a grouo of people in a room and have them all think of the number “1” it will skew a random number generator towards “1”. It’s been proven this works time and time again. Our minds affect physical reality. But again, cad was demanding proof and we both know that’s impossible, a scientific Shit lord should know that.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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This is a very naive understanding. God does live in each and every one of us. That part is absolutely true.

Are there people out there who are more devoted to God than you? More intelligent than you? Wiser than you?

If there are people who devote all of their energy to understanding God are they not worth listening to? Is anyone out there worthy of being your teacher about anything? As the principle applies to any subject.
Thank you man. Great post, this is really the type of real discussion I’m trying to promote in this thread. Will reply later when I have more time.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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This thread has been on the edge of being tossed into the PCC since it's inception. It really seems to me like this is just an alternate religion thread with a dash of MFF style looniness sprinkled in. Reporting legitimate questions for thread shitting doesn't help either.
Since I can’t ignore you I’ll just have to tell you to fuck off too. Your opinion about anything or the authority you think your blue name lends don't mean dick to me. Do your job and moderate the shitposting in this thread.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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This is a very naive understanding. God does live in each and every one of us. That part is absolutely true.

Are there people out there who are more devoted to God than you? More intelligent than you? Wiser than you?

If there are people who devote all of their energy to understanding God are they not worth listening to? Is anyone out there worthy of being your teacher about anything? As the principle applies to any subject.
This has nothing to do with thinking I am better than anyone. I have fundamental disagreements with alot of mainstream Christianity. I agree more with the Christian Gnostic interpretation that the purpose of Jesus' incarnation here was to provide knowledge of peace, Love, unity, and oneness not atonement for original sin through human sacrifice. I disagree with the idea of original sin and the idea that Jesus was a human sacrifice to atone for it.

A lot of the gospels and texts that emphasized a personal relationship through God through prayer and meditation were declared heretical by the Catholic Church and they banned any gospel that threatened the centralized power of the Catholic church. The catholic completely controlled the interpretation of the gospels. They did such a good job covering it up that that Gnosticism was only known through mentions in texts of early orthodox writers that survived until the dead sea scrolls and Nag Hammadi discoveries.

I think it is extremely important that everyone has a direct relationship with God through prayer and meditation so that the priest class and their Ilk have no power over us, it's too important that people learn to think for themselves and not blindly follow what anyone else tells them. it is much harder to be manipulated that way.

It makes no difference to me if it's a Hindu, Catholic, protestant, Muslim, Buddhist, or Zoroastrian that all devote their life to understanding God, I'll still think for myself, not that I wont hear what they have to say. I think they are all partial truths of a much bigger picture. They are men just like me and have no clearer path to truth than I do. There are teachers I listen to, right now it’s the Red text words of Jesus himself and Buddha that I am listening to. I discount anything in the Bible that didnt come right from the mouth of Jesus. Even then I still hold rooms for errors in translation and interpretations over the centuries.

Thanks again for the post.



Note for all the snowflakes. No one has to watch this 10 minute video but if anyone is interested about hearing the suppressed story of Jesus through the Gnostic lens that a great video.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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Copying another post of mine from the UFO thread back in March where someone insinuated that I was trying to start a cult.



I’d consider it more of philosophy than a centralized religion. It is just what I would consider a good philosophy to live by that focuses on unconditional love and freedom from fear and guilt.

My entire philosophy is based on the premise that we are all divine, not one human is any more divine or less than another. Our bodies are the only temple we need and we can communicate directly to the eternal creator through thoughtful prayer and meditation which we then reflect on and filter our intuitions with the principles of honesty, integrity, and service to others. I believe we all can tap into the source of divine wisdom directly without the need for any authority figures that would attempt to centralize power and manipulate people. This philosophy would work just as well for an individual but certainly a lot of people would benefit from some sort of small community based worship. I do agree with you that there would have to be some kind of steadfast protections against anyone trying to become a cult like figure. Ideally, most of the community based gatherings would focus on service to others, with a few elders that could teach some meditation techniques, opportunity for group meditation and maybe quick lessons on secular morality and how to be a better more loving person. So yeah, basically it’s the exact opposite of the Catholic Church, no wonder it bugs you. The only other thing I’d add at the moment, other than additional safeguards against cult figures, would be more focus on giving thanks to the Infinite Creator.
 

Denamian

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Since I can’t ignore you I’ll just have to tell you to fuck off too. Your opinion about anything or the authority you think your blue name lends don't mean dick to me. Do your job and moderate the shitposting in this thread.

Perfectly fine. I wouldn't toss this thread into the PCC without getting a 2OP from the rest of amod. You reported Cad for asking what I believe to be perfectly legitimate questions and at least 1 other amod agreed with me. Let's keep this thread "grown up" and it's all cool.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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Perfectly fine. I wouldn't toss this thread into the PCC without getting a 2OP from the rest of amod. You reported Cad for asking what I believe to be perfectly legitimate questions and at least 1 other amod agreed with me. Let's keep this thread "grown up" and it's all cool.
Thank you and sorry. That was the first time I ever reported a post that I can remember. Didn't mean that specific post but just what was going on in the thread in general. I've asked people here several times to respect it being in the GUS forum.
 
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Cad

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Sorry, that was the first time I ever reported a post that I can remember. Didn't specifically mean that specific post but just what was going on in the thread in general. I've asked people here several time to respect it being in the GUS forum.
Don't know how to break it to you bro, if you think I'm trolling you when you say "it has been scientifically proven that group consciousness can affect a random number generator, we know this" and I ask you to see the proof and you take that as not wanting to have a discussion, I don't know what to tell you. I have an assertion, here's the proof, lets discuss the proof is the definition of a discussion on that assertion.

Since you actually reported me for asking that (wtf?), I'll ask again - what is the actual proof of that assertion?
 
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Julian The Apostate

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Don't know how to break it to you bro, if you think I'm trolling you when you say "it has been scientifically proven that group consciousness can affect a random number generator, we know this" and I ask you to see the proof and you take that as not wanting to have a discussion, I don't know what to tell you. I have an assertion, here's the proof, lets discuss the proof is the definition of a discussion on that assertion.

Since you actually reported me for asking that (wtf?), I'll ask again - what is the actual proof of that assertion?
This work or would you like me to read them to you? Plenty more out there. Going forward im not going to feel the need to prove every accepted scientific theory other than linking a short video. Some of these concepts are too complicated to be able to explain over a paragraph or two and meet any requirements of "proof" you have. If you don't have the time or desire to watch the video I linked you can google just as good as I can. That video that I linked to you earlier in this thread that you refuse to watch is a short summary of the below links. I'll be waiting for your reply to data I linked. You can lead a horse to water.....


 
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Cad

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This work or would you like me to read them to you? Plenty more out there. Going forward im not going to feel the need to prove every accepted scientific theory other than linking a short video. Some of these concepts are too complicated to be able to explain over a paragraph or two and meet any requirements of "proof" you have. If you don't have the time or desire to watch the video I linked you can google just as good as I can. That video that I linked to you earlier in this thread that you refuse to watch is a short summary of the below links. I'll be waiting for your reply to data I linked. You can lead a horse to water.....


The first URL, this one:


Says that micro-PK (what you're referring to as consciousness affecting random number generation) doesn't exist.

The results obtained were indeed decisive. Clear and strong evidence for a null effect was found. Thus, micro-PK was not existent in the data. This supports the arguments raised against micro-PK by many skeptics in the field (e.g., Alcock, 2011).

The second URL, this one:


Is about humans randomly generating numbers and trying to recognize patterns in them.

Are you sure this stuff means what you think it means? Can you talk me through why you think these are proof that human consciousness affects true RNG's? Your links seem to indicate the opposite. I'm sure you'll see this as proof that I'm too dumb to live or something.
 

Burns

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Going forward im not going to feel the need to prove every accepted scientific theory other than linking a short video. Some of these concepts are too complicated to be able to explain over a paragraph or two and meet any requirements of "proof" you have. If you don't have the time or desire to watch the video I linked you can google just as good as I can. That video that I linked to you earlier in this thread that you refuse to watch is a short summary of the below links. I'll be waiting for your reply to data I linked. You can lead a horse to water.....
Sounds to me like you're saying you want to spew Lumi levels of non-sense and have zero amount of pushback because it's in the GUS forum.

Traditionally I thought those types of threads went in the rickshaw; moreover when it's a single person making outlandish claims over and over in a blog type thread.
 

Julian The Apostate

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The first URL, this one:


Says that micro-PK (what you're referring to as consciousness affecting random number generation) doesn't exist.



The second URL, this one:


Is about humans randomly generating numbers and trying to recognize patterns in them.

Are you sure this stuff means what you think it means? Can you talk me through why you think these are proof that human consciousness affects true RNG's? Your links seem to indicate the opposite. I'm sure you'll see this as proof that I'm too dumb to live or something.

Yeah you're right, not the best links. Shame on me. Try these. The CIA one is really interesting. I think this entire area of study around consciousness like remote viewing, telepathy and other psi phenomena are actively being stigmatized and suppressed.


 

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Julian The Apostate

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Sounds to me like you're saying you want to spew Lumi levels of non-sense and have zero amount of pushback because it's in the GUS forum.

Traditionally I thought those types of threads went in the rickshaw; moreover when it's a single person making outlandish claims over and over in a blog type thread.
Hey relax buddy. It’s all good man. I just don’t think we hang out in the same circles and that’s okay. Smoke a joint and relax and talk about the mysteries of the universe, or not. Up to you man!
 

Julian The Apostate

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Jesus this board is too tense sometimes. My fault as much as anyone’s. Let’s start over and relax and have a good time. I hope I didn’t offend anyone with the thread title. I bet your priest is a good dude just like all you guys are, but I’m not really interested in his opinion on anything in this thread. If anyone has any questions about anything I’ve posted I’ll answer them. Otherwise I’ll be happy to disappear for awhile. Don’t really want this thread to be all about me.
 

Cad

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Yeah you're right, not the best links. Shame on me. Try these. The CIA one is really interesting. I think this entire area of study around consciousness like remote viewing, telepathy and other psi phenomena are actively being stigmatized and suppressed.



The Radin meta-study is pretty roundly criticized in that first link you posted though.

Micro-PK research using tRNGs began in the 1960s with researchers using quantum states as a source of true randomness. Over the following decades, the body of research data increased (e.g., Schmidt, 1970; Jahn et al., 1980, 1987). A meta-analysis by Radin and Nelson (1989), including 597 studies conducted up until 1987, found a strong effect supporting micro-PK. This result was confirmed 15 years later in a meta-analysis with additional 176 new studies (Radin and Nelson, 2003). However, these meta-analyses included studies using both tRNGs and poorer-quality algorithmically-based RNGs. A more recent meta-analysis by Bösch et al. (2006) only included studies using tRNGs. This analysis of 380 studies undertaken between 1961 and 2004 identified a very small and heterogeneous effect that indicated a significant deviation from chance (Bösch et al., 2006). A significant negative correlation between sample size and effect size was also found (Bösch et al., 2006). Given the small, heterogeneous effect and this correlation, the authors concluded that the observed effect might have been caused by publication bias (Bösch et al., 2006); other researchers have questioned this interpretation (Radin et al., 2006) and a deeper inspection of the Radin and Nelson (1989, 2003) meta-analyses confirms that these aspects do not apply to their data. Nevertheless many scientists agree that evidence derived from meta-analyses alone does not provide a convincing argument for the existence of micro-PK effects. In addition, meta-analysis methods have recently been criticized, especially with regard to the impact of heterogeneity (e.g., Ioannidis, 2016). This has led to the suggestion that “a single high-quality, well-reported study can be recommended instead of a statistical synthesis of heterogeneous studies” (Brugha et al., 2012, p. 450). A similar suggestion was made by van Elk et al. (2015).

However, high-quality studies aimed at replicating existing results are scarce in micro-PK research. One example is the Jahn et al. (2000) study that utilized research teams from the PEARlab at Princeton University, the Grenzgebiete der Psychologie und Psychohygiene at Freiburg, and the Center for Behavioral Medicine at the Justus Liebig University Giessen. They attempted to replicate the Jahn et al. (1987) benchmark study involving 97 subjects and data from 2.5 million micro-PK trials. The attempted replication, with 227 participants and over 2 million trials, failed to confirm the original results (Jahn et al., 2000). Another is the Maier and Dechamps (in press) micro-PK research that reported on two micro-PK studies using Bayesian methods. The authors reported strong evidence supporting micro-PK in Study 1 (BF10 = 66.7). However, in Study 2, a pre-registered, high-quality replication of Study 1, they found strong evidence for the null effect (BF01 = 11.07). Failure of these high-powered studies to replicate earlier results also raised doubts about the existence of micro-PK.

To me this seems much more like the EmDrive type thing where the effects are so small they're tough to measure and end up being experimental error. This sounds like why Jahn was not able to replicate his results.

Let me ask you this, studies aside, because we can debate studies all day. So what if human consciousness can affect a random number generator? Lets say this is due to some unknown quantum effect. What do we do with that? Whats the point? If we can figure out what is causing the effect (presuming it exists) we may be onto some new quantum effects that may change physics, but in your consciousness/meditation space, what do you plan to do with that information?