Weight Loss Thread

McCheese

McCheese

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I maintain that the most optimal way for a beginner to proceed is via internet research and collaboration (e.g., read bodybuilding.com, follow consensus-derived newb advice, and then post form checks for compound lifts). If you think that a beginner is better off finding a trainer, then that is your prerogative... but if the beginner knew the criteria for determining if the trainer knew his shit, then he wouldn't need the trainer.
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You guys are making it too black and white. I think the best way for a beginner to proceed is to do some internet research and then find a trainer to supplement it. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Find a trainer and talk to him/her about what you've researched, and don't be afraid to question something if it sounds silly by citing wherever you heard contrary information. Likewise, if a trainer says something you think is suspect, go online and check it out with people who seem to know what they're talking about.

Any decent trainer should be willing to discuss stuff like that and should be open to questions. If a trainer is pretty much "my way or the highway" then that tells you that the trainer is shitty, which is pretty much true of ANY person whose job it is to teach you something. Most intelligent people should be able to figure this out, but the stupid people who just want magic weight loss are the ones who blindly follow what trainers say (again, this is the same for anyone who reads/hears something from a supposedly knowledgeable person and never bothers to fact check or think critically about it).
 
skribble

skribble

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Himeo_sl said:
More like 2-3. Pretty hard to drink 8 liters of anything in a day.

Low carb diets increase risk for kindey stones. Never had problems before this, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
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Do they? I can only find one study from 2002 that mentions this, and its due to them finding that high protein consumption apparently leads to more oxalate in the urine, which may combine with calcium to form kidney stones. However, they didn't do any sort of study where they compared low carb versus traditional diets, and they didn't actually find people who developed kidney stones, just an increase in oxalate. They also use the word 'may' a lot, and the study was with 10 people.

Also, low carb diets shouldnt be high in protein like in that study, so its kind of a moot point.
 
Eidal

Eidal

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McCheese_sl said:
You guys are making it too black and white. I think the best way for a beginner to proceed is to do some internet research and then find a trainer to supplement it.
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How much does a PT cost per hour/session in your neck of the woods? Do you really think its worth the cost? Even if you find a good trainer who is willing to tell a client ("Your form sucks dicks -- we're deloading until you can do this properly."), its still a bunch of cash. Most people aren't trying to perfect olympic lift technique; they're trying to put some muscle on without hurting themself.

My argument is that a trainer is typically expensive and full of shit, and even if you find a knowledgeable one, why are you paying $50/hr when you could just film yourself and ask other people for free. Try uploading some fucked up squat vid to r/weightlifting and you'll get good thoughtful critique.
 
McCheese

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
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My argument is that a trainer is typically expensive and full of shit, and even if you find a knowledgeable one, why are you paying $50/hr when you could just film yourself and ask other people for free. Try uploading some fucked up squat vid to r/weightlifting and you'll get good thoughtful critique.
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I don't care how much you video tape yourself and get online feedback, nothing beats having a person beside you pointing out exactly how your form needs to be.
 
Eidal

Eidal

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McCheese_sl said:
I don't care how much you video tape yourself and get online feedback, nothing beats having a person beside you pointing out exactly how your form needs to be.
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Sure man, no one would deny that... a hands-on training with a qualified professional is superior to self-study. There isn't a single personal trainer at my gym that have demonstrated that they're qualified to train the composite lifts. I'm sure I could find one, even in shitty Augusta, GA... but I'm going to guess they're more expensive.

Do you think a beginner really needs to pay $50+/hr for someone to tell him to squat a little lower or to drive with his hips? We aren't talking about a guy looking to compete, or someone trying to pull 600.
 
Khane

Khane

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We get it Eidal, you're smarter than every personal trainer at every gym in the U.S. and probably Canada and Europe too.

Most people would agree that in a broad sense most trainers at most chain gyms are not qualified to be training anyone. But you're taking the hyperbole a little too far and forgetting not every gym is a chain gym, and also not every chain gym sucks at hiring actual trainers who have some experience and know-how.
 
Eidal

Eidal

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Blah I don't mean to come off so arrogant. Seriously, you accuse me of hyperbole but I have a membership at the best gym in Augusta. Its expensive, it has a ton of nice shit, and its huge. But the trainers are a fucking nightmare. I can't do my routine (1 hour) without seeing at least one example of "that should not be happening". So, its entirely possible I'm not seeing all the good shit they're doing because I'm focusing on the bad shit... but when you see a 45 year old 225lb 5'4 woman exhausted and jumping around all you do is cringe and think "jesus fucking christ I hope she doesn't blow out her ankle because that will never heal".
 
McCheese

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
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Do you think a beginner really needs to pay $50+/hr for someone to tell him to squat a little lower or to drive with his hips? We aren't talking about a guy looking to compete, or someone trying to pull 600.
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Yeah, I think it's probably a good idea. Do it for an hour or two and that's all you'll need to get the form down really well. Saying "drive with your hips" and watching a video of someone doing it are pretty meaningless to someone just starting out, because this is literally the definition of "easier said than done." Perhaps you don't have any problem emulating what you see and/or are told, but it really isn't that easy for a lot of people (myself included). It's not a matter of competing or lifting insane weights; even at moderate weights, lifts like squats and deadlifts can result in serious injuries if you don't have really good form. It is absolutely worth it to pay someone knowledgeable for an hour or two to get a good foundation.

Obviously that means a newbie should find a trainer who actually knows how to do the compound lifts, which goes back to my original point of reading/watching information online and then using that to help with a more educated choice of PT.
 
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BruuceWarduck_sl

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I want to argue vs PTs but I have things like RDL and OHP that seemingly never go up for me and Im sure they would if I got a PT.

I also know who actually knows their shit at the gym and if I wasnt a socially inept retard I could just ask a gymbro for a pointer or something
 
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Antarius

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I'm not interested in doing it, but I do think that I'd be a better physical trainer than most people out there actually doing it as their full time employment, because it's something that I've begun to care about, not just seeing it as a paycheck.

I do agree, most beginners will do much better on a 3 day alternating weight lifting routine, but when they are paying "big bucks" they want to see "immediate results" and don't feel like they're getting their money's worth unless they're drenched in sweat after a workout, even though they can achieve their goals working out for 2 hours in a week doingBeginner Workout Routine - Weight Training For BeginnersI do version 2 of the plan, and it really works great.

But it's a lot harder to get consistency out of most people, I hated going to a gym, it took me more time to go there and change twice and then drive home, as I would actually spend lifting weights, so doing workouts at home just makes more sense to me.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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Eidal_sl said:

EDIT: Remember, Ossoi's trainer had him drink straight coconut oil! That isn't even that damaging in the grand scheme of things, but newbs are fucking retarded.
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Lol, you're obsessed. He also got me from 23% body fat to under 10% body fat, and I gained 6kg muscle in the process.

Idiot
 
Eidal

Eidal

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Ossoi_sl said:
Lol, you're obsessed. He also got me from 23% body fat to under 10% body fat, and I gained 6kg muscle in the process.

Idiot
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You got there through tremendous self-discipline and strict adherence to a large cut for an extended period of time. Didn't you follow an ultra-high protein diet and stay within your caloric target most days for months? For every guy like you there are ten people for whom ("Eat less than you burn.") is too hard and they fail. Some of them are honest, others make excuses. Seriously -- look at all the disgusting eatbeasts roaming around, you think they want to look like that? Do you think it truly hasn't occurred to every fat fuck reading this thread ("Hmm, maybe I should try eating less food and see what happens.")?

If you want to give all the credit to your trainer then that's your call... but that's selling yourself short. I mean, was this guy such an overwhelmingly powerful leader that just thinking of his glorious visage kept you on the straight and narrow through the long hours in between sessions?

Though, we can still call you an idiot for guzzling down pure coconut oil and reporting your caliper-measured BF% to the tenth every single day.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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I love reading a thread on how to be a legit weight-lifter by people on a forum known for sitting for 16 hours at a time.
 
Fifey

Fifey

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I decided to start going to the gym after work(5-6pm) because as awesome as going at midnight is, I hate having to avoid alcohol. Despite all the people here I like it more, so many yoga pants.

You can resume your fight over the internet.
 
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BruuceWarduck_sl

shitlord
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So I recently just switched gyms(solely because my old one stopped doing child care) and theyve been trying to get me to do this fitness assessment with a PT for the last few weeks. So I was like fuck it. Maybe they can watch me do some shit and Ill get a pointer or two. So this trainer talks to me for like 30mins of what Im doing with my life or whatever. Tell him Ive been focusin on weight loss for the past 2 years and had lost 85lbs in the process but am now focusing on building lbm or bulking or whatever. So then he tells me Im all wrong and shouldnt bother with bulking/cutting and i can np build muscle while losing bodyfats. He literally said that if Im not sore for at least 2 days after training then Im not working hard enough or producing enough lactic acid, explains to me how i need to boost my metabolism(I imagine my eyes visibly roll into the back of my head) and basically tells me every regurgitated PT theory weve went over the last few pages.

I tell him my workout routine which is:
workout a:
squat 3x5
dumbell bench press 3x8
pendlay row 3x8
reverse flies 3x10
ab work/curls superset

workout b:
front squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
RDL 3x8
lat pulldowns 3x10
ab work/tricep ext superset

I explain that Ive really started getting serious about my form after my surgery earlier this year and making sure Im doing these things correctly but have basically learned EVERYTHING from watching videos on the internet and explain which ones I feel Im lacking on. Desperately hoping we might at least do some of these and I might learn something.

He then proceeds to have me do 20 minutes of HIIT training. At first I thought it was just a warm up until it got difficult like halfway through. At the end I felt like I was going to fucking vomit because I train the complete opposite manner. So of course the PT is like "see I did this to you in 20minutes and I bet you never feel like this after your workouts" blah blah blah. Talks to me for about 10 minutes in his office about Idontevenknowwtf because my head was throbbing from this bs HIIT and drops some Glengarry shit "So it looks like I just found my newest client".

And thats what it ultimately boils down to. The personal trainers in these gyms are in sales. They are going to say and do whatever it takes TO GET THE SALE. And sometimes they might play little inside jokes to see what they can get their clients to do like drink coconut oil.
 
Himeo

Himeo

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Lohk_sl said:
How many carbs do you eat a day?
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I've been eating less than 30g for almost two years.

skribble_sl said:
Do they? I can only find one study from 2002 that mentions this, and its due to them finding that high protein consumption apparently leads to more oxalate in the urine, which may combine with calcium to form kidney stones. However, they didn't do any sort of study where they compared low carb versus traditional diets, and they didn't actually find people who developed kidney stones, just an increase in oxalate. They also use the word 'may' a lot, and the study was with 10 people.

Also, low carb diets shouldnt be high in protein like in that study, so its kind of a moot point.
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That's great, and all. I'm still pissing razor blades.
 
Khane

Khane

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How come you're still eating so few carbs? Have you tried increasing that number by 5g every week until you break out of ketosis, then stepping back 5g the next week to remain in it but at a more reasonable carb level for long term? Also, staying in ketosis for 2 years straight doesn't seem necessary.
 
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