Weight Loss Thread

You need carbs to run for 10 seconds and do one rep with heavy weight, but you don't need them to run 26 miles or bike over 100?

You really have no idea what you are talking about, but most of us knew this.

Itlan_sl said:

How was that ribeye man?! Did you cook it black and blue? Only way to eat a steak.

Click to expand...

90 seconds on one side, 90 on the other. Best steak I've had in ages....about to cook my first grass fed steak, 10oz sirloin...

arkktheseaotter_sl said:

You need carbs to run for 10 seconds and do one rep with heavy weight, but you don't need them to run 26 miles or bike over 100?

You really have no idea what you are talking about, but most of us knew this.

Click to expand...

You are mischaracterizing what he is saying.

Your body is capable of glucose throughGluconeogenesis. For activities where therateof glucose use does not exceed the ability of the liver, kidney, and intestine to produce it then your performance won't suffer. However, in high intensity activities where the rate of glucose consumption by your body does exceed that rate (like sprinting and weightlifting), then your body will need to draw onglycogenthat is stored (mostly) in the liver and muscles. Exercise with high intensity frequently enough and your body won't be able to store enough glycogen in your liver between training sessions and performance will suffer.

When you are glycogen depleted you will burnketone bodiesfor energy instead, but if the activity is high intensity they won't provide enough energy fast enough and your performance will suffer.

Denaut_sl said:

You are mischaracterizing what he is saying.

Your body is capable of glucose throughGluconeogenesis. For activities where therateof glucose use does not exceed the ability of the liver, kidney, and intestine to produce it then your performance won't suffer. However, in high intensity activities where the rate of glucose consumption by your body does exceed that rate (like sprinting and weightlifting), then your body will need to draw onglycogenthat is stored (mostly) in the liver and muscles. Exercise with high intensity frequently enough and your body won't be able to store enough glycogen in your liver between training sessions and performance will suffer.

Note that endurance activity uses glycogen as well, just not as much as quickly.

Click to expand...

Am I really mischaracterizing what he's saying though?

He's essentially making the argument that every world class athlete is doing it wrong, and it'd be "advantageous" for them to be in ketosis during performance?

You agree with this?

arkktheseaotter_sl said:

Am I really mischaracterizing what he's saying though?

He's essentially making the argument that every world class athlete is doing it wrong, and it'd be "advantageous" for them to be in ketosis during performance?

You agree with this?

Click to expand...

Specifically for endurance athletes you mean? No idea, I've never been one. He probably knows more about it than I do.

And world class athletes often do a lot of things wrong in their training regimen, but they are world class athletes.

And you can stop hyperlinking stuff like this you are writing a Gawker article, I know what you are talking about, lol. I'm not sure if you are trying to be impressive or if you are doing it for other people.

Denaut_sl said:

Specifically for endurance athletes you mean? No idea, I've never been one. He probably knows more about it than I do.

And world class athletes often do a lot of things wrong in their training regimen, but they are world class athletes.

Click to expand...

You claim to have read all Lyle McDonald's books, someone who is an endurance athlete and pretty qualified to speak on this shit. Care to drop about 8 hyperlinks on us to refute what he is saying, in Lyle's words?

To further that train of thought a bit, maybe no one ever tried it. Entire sports of world class athletes can miss something blindingly obvious for decades.

Take for example ski jumping:
For like a decades, ski jumpers jumped with theDaescher technique, or skis parallel. Sometime in the 60s it was discovered thatV-Styleproduced much better results, it still took decades for even world class athletes to catch on. No one uses the old technique anymore.

arkktheseaotter_sl said:

You claim to have read all Lyle McDonald's books, someone who is an endurance athlete and pretty qualified to speak on this shit. Care to drop about 8 hyperlinks on us to refute what he is saying, in Lyle's words?

Click to expand...

Those links are for other people that might be reading.

I don't know, his research looks interesting but once againI haven't done the experiments. Other people should do similar experiments and attempt to replicate his results, that is how you figure out what works and what doesn't work.

Of course people tried it, but you can't chalk EVERYTHING up to "They are world class athletes it doesn't matter what they do" even though in a lot cases its true. Some of them are also millionaires and their coaches, nutritionists, doctors and so on have a little bit of say in things. But ketogenic diets aren't new, and I think that runners, cyclists, boxers(imagine how much easier cutting weight would be) and so on would have kinda caught on by now. Even weekend warriors, people who do crossfit, people who run half marathons or marathons etc...everyone is missing the boat? No one wants to perform optimally? Pro athletes don't want to make 5mil instead of 1mil? The people in the crossfit games last week don't want to win 250k? Joe Shmoe doesn't want to finish first in a marathon?

The problem is "As anyone who's done ketosis for extended periods of time can tell you" as a blanket statement. It's flat out idiotic.

and I just googled that Dr.'s name and this is the start of the last paragraph of his bio...

"In 2012, along with science journalist Gary Taubes, I co-founded the Nutrition Science Initiative, or NuSI (pronounced "new-see")."

Wow, big fucking shocker there lmao.

And the rest of what he said, as far as he summarized is even a little sketchy. Being able to eat carbs and stay in ketosis is true and proven, but the rest of it? 20% increase in metabolism? Do you know how huge that is? Dinitrophenol increases your metabolism by like 10% or 5% or something and that's a HUGE amount and it does so by literally cooking you, and misuse can kill you.

It's also widely believed that the increased fat loss from a ketogenic diet is from the absence of carbs, not from ketosis itself, and also the increase to TEF from eating a high protein diet.

Well, boxing and crossfitting are absolutely not low-intensity activities, so that wouldn't even apply. And cutting weight for athletes/bodybuilders often involves ketosis (usually along with severe Calorie restriction), so it seems to me they are on board at least partially. And yea, I am saying a lot of people can sometimes miss the boat, I don't know about in this specific instance. As far as I could Google no one has done a study comparing endurance sport performance on and off ketosis. Maybe there is something to it, maybe not.

Also, what does Gary Taubes have to do with anything?

Denaut_sl said:

Well, boxing and crossfitting are absolutely not low-intensity activities, so that wouldn't even apply. And cutting weight for athletes/bodybuilders often involves ketosis (usually along with severe Calorie restriction), so it seems to me they are on board at least partially. And yea, I am saying a lot of people can sometimes miss the boat, I don't know about in this specific instance. As far as I could Google no one has done a study comparing endurance sport performance on and off ketosis. Maybe there is something to it, maybe not.

Also, what does Gary Taubes have to do with anything?

Click to expand...

Boxing is largely aerobic. True anaerobic bursts make up a very small amount of a fight. Same with muay thai, same with MMA. Aerobic base is #1. They aren't exactly endurance sports, but still. They are much longer than running the 100m, and therefore apply for this purpose because he claimed that powerlifting/sprinting was the sweet spot for carb based diets, and ketogenic for the opposite.

And cutting weight does not in any way OFTEN involve ketosis, that's a RIDICULOUS statement. I know dozens of fighters who don't fuck with water until the last few days and eat carbs up until the day of the weigh in, and bodybuilders can really eat whatever they want and often do because the drugs offset it. Very few bodybuilders do ketogenic diets, and the ones that do work with Dave Palumbo who is generally considered a fucking idiot. Speaking of fucking idiots, that's why I brought up Gary Taubes.

arkktheseaotter_sl said:

Boxing is largely aerobic. True anaerobic bursts make up a very small amount of a fight. Same with muay thai, same with MMA. Aerobic base is #1. They aren't exactly endurance sports, but still. They are much longer than running the 100m, and therefore apply for this purpose because he claimed that powerlifting/sprinting was the sweet spot for carb based diets, and ketogenic for the opposite.

And cutting weight does not in any way OFTEN involve ketosis, that's a RIDICULOUS statement. I know dozens of fighters who don't fuck with water until the last few days and eat carbs up until the day of the weigh in, and bodybuilders can really eat whatever they want and often do because the drugs offset it. Very few bodybuilders do ketogenic diets, and the ones that do work with Dave Palumbo who is generally considered a fucking idiot. Speaking of fucking idiots, that's why I brought up Gary Taubes.

Click to expand...

Same... Actually Cotto doesn't eat any fat in his diet..

Speaking of carbs.. I've been making an amazing pancake every morning.. 2TBs of Oat bran, 2TBs of Vanilla greek yogurt and 1 egg. Mix and cook over med heat pan. Keeps me full for hours!

Convo_sl said:

Same... Actually Cotto doesn't eat any fat in his diet..

Speaking of carbs.. I've been making an amazing pancake every morning.. 2TBs of Oat bran, 2TBs of Vanilla greek yogurt and 1 egg. Mix and cook over med heat pan. Keeps me full for hours!

Click to expand...

Yeah and no one can use the "genetically superior" argument with Miguel. He's a hall of famer but he isn't Roy Jones Jr when it comes to hitting the genetic lottery. Cotto is a tough as fuck grinder who is also a really intelligent boxer, but he isn't a super athlete.

Not every pro athlete rolled out of a womb and became a pro at their sport, some pros are just really hard workers.

Bananas are too fucking sweet when at peak ripeness. Jesus christ.

As someone who did Atkins and lost ~100 lbs in 10 months I can give you some anecdotal evidence on "power" lifting while in Ketosis. I have no idea about the science behind it, or if I was just an anomaly but with just eating good protein and fats and a low carb diet consisting of mainly green leafy vegetables I went from a weak fat (280 lbs) fuck who could barely bench press 95 lbs to being able to max 345 on a 175lb frame in a little over a year and a half. And I never felt fatigued or tired while lifting, in fact, I had a ton of energy and I was doing 3 rep sets with high amounts of weight.

You guys can argue all you want about what is and isn't the "right" way but I have seen nothing but anecdotal evidence such as what I just provided. You all disagree about what is good or bad for you but I can tell you this. Every time I go in for a physical everything is in the "ideal" range (blood pressure, cholesterol, etc) and I am not 280 goddamn lbs anymore. So good luck trying to convince me that a low carb diet, or ketosis, are bad for you.

Khane_sl said:

So good luck trying to convince me that a low carb diet, or ketosis, are bad for you.

Click to expand...

Point out a single person who has claimed that.

If no one is claiming it's bad for you, why are so many people fighting over it?