Westworld

Xarpolis

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Pluribus is going the same way. Same as Heroes, Umbrella Academy, Altered Carbon.

They have a really cool concept/sandbox/premise and just piss it away on generic character drama/vibe scenes.

Hollywood is pretty good at a lot of things but they absolutely suck fat monster dicks at writing.
Save the Cheerleader, save the World.

Ultimately, it's the fault of the writer's strike that Heroes fizzled out the way it did. I really loved it until that last season with the carnival.
 
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jayrebb

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Maybe if it gets a 5th season, they'll release it on 4k bluray with a steelbook, then also release season 4 with a steelbook. I have 1-3 steelbooks already, but 4 was just standard. Am disappoint.

With the way Nolan has talked about "by any means" he threw out it might just end up being a twitter post with a storyboard lol.

Hope he gets some funding but they way they sold the stream rights to Roku doesn't bode well. Be ready for a very short manga insert
 

Bald Brah

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Westworld got fucking terrible when the chicks stopped getting naked and all became girl bosses. No one is watching that garbage.
 
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Izo

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Westworld got fucking terrible when the chicks stopped getting naked and all became girl bosses. No one is watching that garbage.
 

Phazael

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Well that was the literal strategy for a lot of these shows in the 2010s, particularly the ones on HBO. Have a great premise, with some high ticket actors, and some major titties during the first couple seasons. They were actually hiring literal strippers and whores as extras in many of these shows. Then if the show hits, the actresses start thinking they are above getting naked, the writing goes off course due to overmilking storylines, and the whore/tittly budget vanishes practically overnight.

Where Streaming has really done damage is the 8-10 episode "season" where they are still wasting time on filler because they want to milk the show for money as long as possible. The Woke brigade also pretty much made sure we never got to see titties again after a certain point, but endless Dongs abound (see The Boys as a prime example) or shows where the audience gets into the "wrong" character and the writers with an agenda try to overcompensate, usually only to make the situation worse. If you have a longer season, you can spend more time on these one off idea episodes or backstory expositions. When you have less than a dozen episodes to get an entire arc out, you can't fuck around. And you cannot shit on the audience or lower quality. If you sold people on titties, titties must be provided. No, Emelia Clark, you are not a good enough actress to justify putting your skeeter bites and snizz on lockdown after a season or two. Sorry Seth Rogan, the more you try to make Homelander the bad guy the more we like him the best. And if you gank Pedro at the start of season two, nothing that comes after is going to hold my interest, certainly not the downy woke carpet muncher girl. Its a combination of Agenda, prioritizing drawing shit out forever, and poor pacing all crammed into overly short seasons.

Now there are some shows that seem to buck those trends and even deliver complete stories with short seasons. Slow Horses is an excellent example. I think Fallout does a pretty decent job, though its over reliant on Goggins and MacLaughlin. The Sandman did a really fantastic job maintaining its pacing and quality for its entire run. There have been a couple other recent gems, but not many. Speaking as someone who regularly binges DS9 from time to time and who is currently binging Blacklist, its a stark contrast of how unbelievably shitty most writing and show running has become since the streaming era began.
 
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Cybsled

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r shows where the audience gets into the "wrong" character and the writers with an agenda try to overcompensate

Funny you later mentioned DS9, but this is exactly what they did with Gul Dukat in the last seasons. Lots of fans were like “Gul Dukat did nothing wrong” and the writers basically dialed up the evil by 10 in the last season. Ziyal getting killed at least provided a reason for Dukat to have a complete mental break
 
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Siliconemelons

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Funny you later mentioned DS9, but this is exactly what they did with Gul Dukat in the last seasons. Lots of fans were like “Gul Dukat did nothing wrong” and the writers basically dialed up the evil by 10 in the last season. Ziyal getting killed at least provided a reason for Dukat to have a complete mental break

Dukat has plenty of "who do you believe" moments where you had to either believe him, or Kira - the problem was Dukat more often than not brought recipes while Kira just got mad, not always did he have /proof/ but he also was shown to not fully be completely an unreliable narrator of events. He never replied to her accusations of killing tons of people with "No" it was "Yes, but..."

I do not think they meant to, but they kind of made him Shindler ('s list) type of guy, where he did what he could, but you cannot just completely turn against the machine or it will just kill you and replace you with a worse option. Fred killed 10, you killed 8 but saved 2, yes you still killed 8... and next round you will save 2 more, then 2 more etc. etc. or, just up and turn, "save" all 10, get outed, get killed and get attention drawn to those 10 who will just get killed and you replaced with a Fred that will just kill all 10 still.

Also, it kind of didn't matter "now" who was right "then" Kira or Dukat - and Sisko was the perfect middle man
 

Phazael

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Funny you later mentioned DS9, but this is exactly what they did with Gul Dukat in the last seasons. Lots of fans were like “Gul Dukat did nothing wrong” and the writers basically dialed up the evil by 10 in the last season. Ziyal getting killed at least provided a reason for Dukat to have a complete mental break
Which is the difference between good writing and shit writing. Dukat was a fundamentally evil and selfish the entire time, but after his mental break and his Pah Wraith interactions, he went completely off the rails as you noted. This was actually part of the story and his character, not the writers shifting gears like has gone on with say, Homelander or most modern white male antagonists that the fans have warmed up to. Its not noticeable because Garak was so much more compelling of an evil character (as was Weyoun for that matter).
 

Arbitrary

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1770869653098.png


This is Ira Steven Behr. He was one of the producers. Why yes, his beard is purple.
 
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Phazael

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Well Trek has been progressive leaning since day one. But that does not mean it was bad story telling and DS9 had good story telling with complex characters where the viewer was left to decide what they had been presented. The bulk of the OG series and TNG had this going for it, where it was present an allegory that is not directly one for one, show the viewers both sides, tell the story, and let them think about it. Hell Voyager even ,managed to tackle the 13=50 issue and confronted slavery through the Holodoc in a couple of episodes. Fast forward to recent years and you have Fox News somehow still existing to be shit on, black mary sue space Jesus, and gay poet cross dressing klingons. In the Boys, you have Homelander becoming a literal MAGA Trump punching bag stand in with zero grey area at all.

Most of this did not apply to Westworld, though. Westworlds main failure was shit tier writers that had a good idea that carried them through season one by leaning heavily on Anthony Hopkins, Ed Harris, Thandy Newton, and fucktons of titties. Most of that ran out very early in season 2 and was essentially all gone for the rest of its run. And to make matters worse, the second season ending was so bad that most people dropped the show practically overnight. The outspoken feminist lead actress did not help things, either. The core ideas remained interesting, but the resources and writing dried up. Same with pretty much every series these days, like Last of Us being the most egregious recent example though it had other issues.