What's going on at Blizzard?

Springbok said:

The bleeding edge content in WOW was and is harder than anything they've ever put in EQ, and it isn't even close

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But ur not being forced to camp mobs for 374 hours! EZmode.

I remember when WoW announced instanced dungeons and raids and the EQ crowd was basically calling the game training wheels. Now I don't think anyone in their right mind would play a non-instanced MMO.

Himeo said:

It bottles my mind how anyone can look back at WoW as if it was ever hard.

> poopsock for 24-48 hours.

I spent my summer vacation sitting on a god damn mountain in the middle of fucking nowhere waiting in line for Ragefire to spawn with 6 other assholes, hoping one of them would DC or AFK and I could jump in front of them in line. I took 18 hour shifts and my brother sat watch for six hours while I slept just in case anyone sent me a tell asking if I was there or not.

When my turn finally came 6 weeks later, my guild couldn't get enough people online to kill the bastard on the first try. So the guy behind me killed Ragefire and I had to go to the back of the fucking line and wait another 7 weeks.

All this so I could spend the next few years holding a limp penis in my clerics hand.

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Also, a few months after I completed the epic they made the NPC spawnable on demand.

Fuck you. WoW was always casual.

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I still remember sitting on some god forsaken island in the ocean of tears for some ranger set pants for my friend. It was not even my damn armor but this thing was on some stupidly long spawn time and had place holders. So I took the night shift on a 2 day stint at going for this and sometime around 4 am when the place holder was set to spawn low and behold the actual NPC he needed spawned. I swear I just looked at it in dumb incomprehension for like 2 minutes before realizing holy shit here we go called my friend and woke him up and its like why are you calling me at 4am. I had to go do you want the god damn pants or not if you do log your ass in and we can kill this shit and I can go to bed hehe.

I also remember a corpse recovery in some kunark dungeon that went hilariously sideways and we had gotten close to the time frame our bodies were going to rot and lose all the gear before we had a strike force of monks from around the server came to help do a massive corpse recovery effort for us.

Wow was never anything but casual compared to EQ.

Springbok said:

The bleeding edge content in WOW was and is harder than anything they've ever put in EQ, and it isn't even close

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mechanics wise yes but a lot of the old bleeding edge eq stuff required enormous amounts of keying/attuning for a huge roster needed to dent the damn things. Most of the fights were pretty straight forward but that in large part was a result of having enormous raid sizes needed to harm them.

It was far more difficult to do raiding in eq1. I remember when I was playing eq1 most people tended to do the previous expansion packs content and raids because it just took that long to gear up enough to push to the newest stuff. In wow the way they do gear resets means for raiders they don't have to wind up going back through multiple expansions worth of raids for a best in slot item like EQ used to do.

So yes the poopsock factor needed to be the hardcore of the hardcore in eq1 was just miles harder than wow ever was or will be.

Agreed, the poopsock factor was far more in EQ than in WoW.

Poopsocking is not difficulty.

Cad said:

You use words like "difficult" and "harder" and then just describe things that take a long time, not anything actually requiring skill.

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In wow you can hit max level do some basic gear up stuff download deadly boss mods and even most slack jawed mouth breathers can do raids in wow. Even the bleeding edge stuff currently unlocked has already been beaten. I don't really agree that wow raids are that particularly difficult currently or even in the past. EQ was hard because you had to stay dedicated and play it constantly for years on end to get upgrades enough to even try to do the raids. If you did not then you go in and would just get stomped flat. In wow a casual person can go in and raid and have success in EQ casual players generally never saw the inside of raids because they simply could never gear up sufficiently for it.

Now this likely has changed I stopped playing EQ1 in the expansion after the lost dungeons of norrath thing but raiding in eq was only for the most hardcore of the hardcore in that time frame.

kaid said:

EQ was hard because you had to stay dedicated and play it constantly for years on end to get upgrades enough to even try to do the raids.

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That's not Difficulty

Himeo said:

It bottles my mind how anyone can look back at WoW as if it was ever hard.

> poopsock for 24-48 hours.

I spent my summer vacation sitting on a god damn mountain in the middle of fucking nowhere waiting in line for Ragefire to spawn with 6 other assholes, hoping one of them would DC or AFK and I could jump in front of them in line. I took 18 hour shifts and my brother sat watch for six hours while I slept just in case anyone sent me a tell asking if I was there or not.

When my turn finally came 6 weeks later, my guild couldn't get enough people online to kill the bastard on the first try. So the guy behind me killed Ragefire and I had to go to the back of the fucking line and wait another 7 weeks.

All this so I could spend the next few years holding a limp penis in my clerics hand.

View attachment 79440

Also, a few months after I completed the epic they made the NPC spawnable on demand.

Fuck you. WoW was always casual.

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Or you could just sell a fungus tunic and buy a cleric epic MQ. That's what I did.

Warcraft used to be bad ass, just take a look at the WC2 manual (luv it). Yeah it is very cartoony now which is too bad but if it brings more dollars in to make the content better, meh.

Erronius said:

WoW was skill-hard, EQ was patience/dedication-hard. Both were difficult but for vastly different reasons. Some people won't think WoW is hard, especially if they were good at it, just like a lot of people won't think EQ is hard, especially if they had no life and were willing to be online 24/7.

Why we keep having this debate every 6-12mo is a mystery to me. At times I think this community is filled with a lot of really intelligent people, but then we continue to rehash the stupidest arguments known to man.

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Is wow difficulty hard though? Normal and heroic modes are already pretty beatable even in the half ass gear we have available to us. Mythic is a bit of a challenge but that is still more of a gearing up dedication gear check difficulty overall.

Mythic is gonna be pretty brutal for raids I think.

ZyyzYzzy said:

I'd say this is entirely false

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Um given I have already gone in and killed 2 bosses in a pug this weekend in half ass level up gear I am not sure what part of this you feel to be totally false. I went in with half ass gear with no consumables in a random pug with no voice chat and managed success against the two bosses I had time to fight. I am pretty sure an actual guild run with consumables and a bare amount of coordination can do these fights. Right now the biggest hindrance is basic gearing and most people are a bit under geared or non optimally geared but that is all poopsock difficulty to get that sorted out not actual raid difficulty.