Why do men keep putting me in the Girlfriend-zone?

Famm

Famm

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Tanoomba_sl said:
So girls should just suck it up and accept that, for as long as they are considered attractive by society at large, they will be targeted by strangers on a regular basis who will invade their personal space and make them feel uncomfortable. OK, got it.
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Tanoomba_sl said:
Well, good sir, men don't have to put up with she-assholes and low value females trying approaches. A guy can go outside dressed however he wants with the knowledge and confidence that he will not be made to feel like a piece of meat nor will he be accosted by strangers making him feel uncomfortable.

In an effort to make it seem like this is a two-way street, it's been suggested that women objectify men too, only for "what they can bring to the table" as opposed to what they look like. While I'm more than willing to acknowledge that this is the case, I think it's preposterous to compare a woman's "passive" objectification of a man (that, for all intents and purposes, has no affect on the daily lives of most men) to a man's "active" objectification of a woman, something many women have to deal with every day of their lives. That is my point.
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Women like being sexually objectified and desired by men, like Arb said though just not as much when the guy is too far beneath them. (They won't admit it, covert/overt again.) Men on the other hand don't particularly like feeling as if they have to be equal parts Cyrano and Hercules every minute of the day in order to attract women. Whatreallyburns women up is that they can't control their physical attractiveness since its largely something they are born with and no amount of makeup or clothes will fix fat or ugly. Hence, hating on other attractive women constantly. Physical beauty is the primary attractor for men, and as such it is the greatest asset to a woman as she moves through society.

The real problem feminists have with all this is that looks are fleeting. The older a woman get the less power she has over males. Most attractive women spend high school until well past college being drunk with power and attention. Those women who never had it, or who had it and are watching it slip away, love shaming men for being male and being consumed by looks even if they reveled in it during their youth.

Men on the other hand start out retardo and end up more and more valuable. You tried to shame the concept of a 45 year old man hitting on a woman earlier as if that's inherently creepy. But a 45 year old man in good shape, single, no kids, good job, decently attractive and bonus if lucky enough to have a full head of hair....that guy is insanely more valuable to women of many ages than 45 year old woman of similar circumstances is to him. Guys get more confident, more physically filled out, better earners, more experienced and interesting....all the things that make a man attractive to a woman. Males spend their youth bumbling and fumbling around while girls dance circles around them. Eventually the party dies down though and available males become the object of desire as the demographic shifts towards the 30's and 40's. Not to mention fertility peaks in the 20's for women and then begins a very deliberate and inexorable decline, while men stay viable well into their elderly years.

This shaming of men for their fixation on looks and instilling an expectation for them not to act out on their desire is nothing but a defense against the ever deteriorating female sexual power. Strangers approaching women isn't uncomfortable for them, its either annoying if the guy is a dud, or exciting if he is a stud. Take any instance where a woman calls being hit on or oogled creepy and with a sufficiently attractive/interesting male she would flip her script and call it making a connection or rationalize some convenient coincidental reason for the guy approaching her that would be written off as a desperate pick up line if he was some awkward chubby guy.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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Famm_sl said:
Women like being sexually objectified and desired by men, like Arb said though just not as much when the guy is too far beneath them. (They won't admit it, covert/overt again.) Men on the other hand don't particularly like feeling as if they have to be equal parts Cyrano and Hercules every minute of the day in order to attract women. Whatreallyburns women up is that they can't control their physical attractiveness since its largely something they are born with and no amount of makeup or clothes will fix fat or ugly. Hence, hating on other attractive women constantly. Physical beauty is the primary attractor for men, and as such it is the greatest asset to a woman as she moves through society.

The real problem feminists have with all this is that looks are fleeting. The older a woman get the less power she has over males. Most attractive women spend high school until well past college being drunk with power and attention. Those women who never had it, or who had it and are watching it slip away, love shaming men for being male and being consumed by looks even if they reveled in it during their youth.

Men on the other hand start out retardo and end up more and more valuable. You tried to shame the concept of a 45 year old man hitting on a woman earlier as if that's inherently creepy. But a 45 year old man in good shape, single, no kids, good job, decently attractive and bonus if lucky enough to have a full head of hair....that guy is insanely more valuable to women of many ages than 45 year old woman of similar circumstances is to him. Guys get more confident, more physically filled out, better earners, more experienced and interesting....all the things that make a man attractive to a woman. Males spend their youth bumbling and fumbling around while girls dance circles around them. Eventually the party dies down though and available males become the object of desire as the demographic shifts towards the 30's and 40's. Not to mention fertility peaks in the 20's for women and then begins a very deliberate and inexorable decline, while men stay viable well into their elderly years.

This shaming of men for their fixation on looks and instilling an expectation for them not to act out on their desire is nothing but a defense against the ever deteriorating female sexual power. Strangers approaching women isn't uncomfortable for them, its either annoying if the guy is a dud, or exciting if he is a stud. Take any instance where a woman calls being hit on or oogled creepy and with a sufficiently attractive/interesting male she would flip her script and call it making a connection or rationalize some convenient coincidental reason for the guy approaching her that would be written off as a desperate pick up line if he was some awkward chubby guy.
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I don't think he read the study.
 
A

Antarius

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Tanoomba_sl said:
Yeah, you caught a girl looking at you and then you initiated a conversation and took it from there.
When was the last time a girl you didn't know catcalled you?
When was the last time a 45 year old woman who thought you were hot came up to you and started conversing, ignoring your clear discomfort?
When was the last time a stranger started flirting with you in an elevator where you couldn't get away, forcing you to count each awkward second as you try to turn her away as politely as you can?
When was the last time a woman made a comment about your package?

Give me a break, people. Now you guys are clearly trying to spite me.
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A) About 2 years ago.
B) Happens several times a year.
C) About 3 years ago, but I don't live in "the city", so it's pretty rare that I ride elevators.
D) Yesterday.
 
Kirun

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Famm_sl said:
This shaming of men for their fixation on looks and instilling an expectation for them not to act out on their desire is nothing but a defense against the ever deteriorating female sexual power.
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Bingo. It's why most feminists tend to be older/elderly or ugly.
 
Tanoomba

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Arbitrary_sl said:
I don't think you understand very well the species you belong to. Almost the entire burden of introduction and approach is on the male side and they take all the risks to their status that are incurred by being rejected. The very idea that you are trying to paint this situation as being disadvantageous to females isridiculous.Oh, I'm so sorry that all of your interactions with human beings are not to your liking but the other side does not live in a world with an endless parade of potential suitors whom you can destroy one after another with a single disgusted look should you find their value not to your standards.
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You're totally right. The burden of introduction and approach is on the male. You know who hates that? Feminists. So if you're bitching about how tough guys have it, always having to be the one to risk rejection, you should be a feminist.
 
Tanoomba

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Famm_sl said:
Women like being sexually objectified and desired by men, like Arb said though just not as much when the guy is too far beneath them. (They won't admit it, covert/overt again.) Men on the other hand don't particularly like feeling as if they have to be equal parts Cyrano and Hercules every minute of the day in order to attract women. Whatreallyburns women up is that they can't control their physical attractiveness since its largely something they are born with and no amount of makeup or clothes will fix fat or ugly. Hence, hating on other attractive women constantly. Physical beauty is the primary attractor for men, and as such it is the greatest asset to a woman as she moves through society.
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OK, so say a woman doesn't want to play this game. Say she realizes she's fat and ugly and will never be considered beautiful. Say she develops a love for science, gets a medical degree and makes an amazing discovery that brings cancer research forward by leaps and bounds. An online article about her lists her incredible achievements, praising her for her commitment to her field. What's that in the comments section? "Maybe she should be studying how to prevent obesity instead!" "What does that fat bitch know about health? She can't even take care of herself!" "Anybody missing a beached whale?" etc etc. See, unlike men, she can't choose not to play this game. No matter what she does, she will be judged as a failure as a sexual being because we insist that women have to be attractive to have value.

I'd also be careful with phrases like "Women like being sexually objectified and desired by men". That's a blanket generalization, and many misguided stances on this thread have been based on those.

Famm_sl said:
This shaming of men for their fixation on looks and instilling an expectation for them not to act out on their desire is nothing but a defense against the ever deteriorating female sexual power. Strangers approaching women isn't uncomfortable for them, its either annoying if the guy is a dud, or exciting if he is a stud. Take any instance where a woman calls being hit on or oogled creepy and with a sufficiently attractive/interesting male she would flip her script and call it making a connection or rationalize some convenient coincidental reason for the guy approaching her that would be written off as a desperate pick up line if he was some awkward chubby guy.
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Hey, believe it or not, I'm not shaming men. I understand that for the shy guy on the bus, it takes a lot of courage for him to muster up the nerve to approach that cute girl and try to strike up a conversation. But see, maybe that cute girl doesn't want to be approached right now. Maybe earlier that day some guy asked her out, then called her a bitch when she refused and she doesn't feel like going through that again. Maybe she's on her way to visit her mother in the hospital and is not in the mood for small talk with a stranger. Maybe she's a lesbian but doesn't want to feel pressured into having to share that with strangers. Maybe when she tries to avoid eye contact or bury her nose in her phone, it's not always taken as a signal that she's not interested in talking. Should women be forced to wear a sign saying "Sorry, don't approach me"? That actually reminds me of a Muslim girl I took a certification course with. She didn't have to cover her head in public, but she explained that she often did because it prevented unwanted male attention. Again, I'm not saying that men are the bad guys here, I'm saying that there is no "opt out" option for girls who do not want to be seen as sexual targets. I'm also not saying there's an easy fix for this, but things wemighttry to do could include not making assumptions about women, discouraging the perpetuation of stereotypes in popular media, teach our daughters that they are more important than what they look like, etc.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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women can and will be attention whoring assholes. go check out which gender uploads the majority of youtube videos of themselves. one time i was out with a group of friends and i was trying to make time with this cute spanish chick i spotted sitting by herself across the room and who may or may not have had too much to drink. things were looking good when one of my chick friends (she is no friend friend) walks up to us and sits down and starts talking all sweetlike to me, the spanish chick looks at her then at me, gets up and walks the fuck off. apparently i was ignoring my female friend and this was her way of getting back at me. i didnt know i was there to fucking hold her hand all night. this was a chick i never had any romantic involvement with and even though i would have fucked her, she was never into me, cept that one moment i decided i wanted to get laid and left her on her own for a half hour.
 
Drinsic

Drinsic

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Tanoomba_sl said:
You're totally right. The burden of introduction and approach is on the male. You know who hates that? Feminists. So if you're bitching about how tough guys have it, always having to be the one to risk rejection, you should be a feminist.
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So basically you're a feminist because you're a giant pussy that's terrified of rejection. Did your hairy wife have to approach you?
 
Arbitrary

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Wait, I get it. You are generalizing the behavior of a couple douchebags to your entire gender.

Stop doing that.
 
Famm

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He's right, you should always ask a woman's permission before speaking to her, otherwise she might be inconvenienced. Plus there's nothing more attractive to women than male subservience so its a win-win.
 
Arbitrary

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Tanoomba_sl said:
But see, maybe that cute girl doesn't want to be approached right now. Maybe earlier that day some guy asked her out, then called her a bitch when she refused and she doesn't feel like going through that again. Maybe she's on her way to visit her mother in the hospital and is not in the mood for small talk with a stranger. Maybe she's a lesbian but doesn't want to feel pressured into having to share that with strangers. Maybe when she tries to avoid eye contact or bury her nose in her phone, it's not always taken as a signal that she's not interested in talking.
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Maybe you shouldn't conjure up a million hypothetical reasons not to talk to someone and maybe you should be a fucking adult who maybe steps forward and starts up a conversation and risks rejection from time to time and maybe you shouldn't rationalize this piss poor beta behavior as being some kind of goal for men everywhere.

Maybe.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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I am gonna have to make a list of "Tanoomba: I NEED FEMINISM BECAUSE..." series. It's fucking hilarious.
 
Arbitrary

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I'm tempted to take a picture of myself holding a sign that says "I need feminism because men don't always ask for permission before talking to women" but I fear it going viral.
 
Mist

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This whole thread is just a bunch of generalizations from anecdotes, from the perspective of men, about urban young women during a particularly sexually permissive generation. And then it extrapolates that to all settings and backwards in time.
 
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