Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

Draegan_sl said:

Due to the nature of dungeons these days, the slower you make me go because you want to talk about whatever is just irritating. Especially if you're a stranger.Especially if I'm on skyp/vent talking to other people.

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mkopec_sl said:

See, this is the fucking problem.why do you want to group then? Why not just have solo McDungeons so you dont ever have to be social again. Then you wont be bothered when your skyping.

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Draegan_sl said:

There are a lot of reasons.Some people like the group dynamic but don't really care about chatting with you.I mean I know there are plenty of times I just want to listen to music and do dungeons.I'm not there to be your friend, especially if the experience is 30 minutes.

I'm not sure why you're so hard up for people on the internet to talk to you about random shit.I'm not sure what you're expecting honestly.

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For better or worse gameplay in dungeons has evolved. Daily 30 minute treadmills. Some people have adapted some haven't.

IMO the bold text embodies the core issue anti-LFD/omg-community people have. The need to talk about random shit with strangers is the key. If you can't spend 30 minutes with 3-4 other people in a zero to minimal downtime environment that you've done over and over and over and over and over without feeling the need to "talk" then it's you, not the other people in the group. No amount of armchair quarterbacking the design and development of LFD tools will make strangers "talk" to you. It is a psychological issue otherwise known as baggage. Join the club, everyone has baggage of some sort.

In a game like vanilla eq where your group would have 5-10 static spawns on a 30 min timer, community and socializing was much more important. In modern games that don't involve sitting in one spot the vast majority of the time, complaining that people don't want to sit around and get to know the real you is no reason to ruin a game

Here's another point of discussion on dungeons, assuming they go with basically the WoW model (30 minutes, 3-5 bosses with some trash corridors):

I'd like the dungeons to have versions for different amounts of players, i.e. solo, duo, 3 players and 4 players. To tie this idea into the beaten-to-death LFD argument, if I'm just running that shit for my points while watching TV I really cant be arsed to pay attention to the retards I get served through that, and usually there's one that slows the group down. Hell depending on the situation it might even be me. Bottom line is why force people into that if you can simply put one or two trash mobs less into each corridor, have the boss have only one pillar you need to rub gently to shut down his shields instead of 3, and let me do it alone. That way I can take a piss in the middle without being vote kicked. Also on the same angle, I tend to play with one or two other RL friends and it would be more fun if we could just have at it together in the 3-player version without some stranger tagging along.

You could even tie this into the difficulty/reward pattern: Say the dungeon gives 100 points per player it is designed for when you beat the boss, those are spread amont the actual number of players taking part in the run (would beed safeguards vs exploitation with dropping ofc). If you can solo the 2-player version, more power to you and you get your points faster (faster then grouping it several times? Depends on how the devs intention). Same if you tackle the 4-player version with 3 people, etc. Maybe make versions go up to "monster power 8" despite the group size being 4, essentially merging the heroic copies of the dungeon into this system.

an accordion_sl said:

dragon is all in on this game


You got a critique or problem about Wildstar? Prepare yourself for a one-liner.

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One liner? If I'm anything, I'm long winded.

Dungeons need to be modular in the sense that "This shit over here is rape for less than 5 people, but this area is ok for 3!" type modular, not dynamically changing based upon who is brought to the dungeon. Let players realize that Elite means they probably can't solo it under normal circumstances.

LFD didn't do anything to bad to WOW. It's shitty dungeon design did.

LFD isn't good or bad, it's just a tool.

I've been messing around in EQ again recently, it's been years. Started a new toon because I'm just so lost when I look at my old raid geared main, with a full bank of crap I can't remember the point of. Anyways, was waiting on a named to spawn in the tutorial and grouped with another player doing the same. We sat and bs'd while the spawn timer ticked off. It felt so weird, because in modern mmo's the named respawns immediately and we do our thing without saying a word.

I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, it's just different. I wish there were more variety in mmos and they didn't all follow the McWoW formula. I know lots of players love that kind of thing, and sometimes I do to. But there are millions of players who like variety, and it is very much missing in mmos.

Grim1_sl said:

I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, it's just different. I wish there were more variety in mmos and they didn't all follow the McWoW formula. I know lots of players love that kind of thing, and sometimes I do to. But there are millions of players who like variety, and it is very much missing in mmos.

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Bingo.

In my opinion I think Public dungeons will be the future and it will be more 'instanced' co-op scenarios. Even though dungeons are essentially that. I hope that if they have to have "daily" things make them in Public dungeons to make the player feel more apart of the world. Only use instances for story telling etc.

Pancreas_sl said:

All of the examples given about forming a group the old fashioned way, with an LFD tool present, talked about pulling from their guild and friends lists, which is what I mentioned. What I said was impossible, was putting together a group from scratch (i.e. you don't already know any of the other people), while an LFD tool exists.

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So you think LFD is bad because it makes it much harder to get a group together when you don't know anyone, even though LFD's whole purpose it's grouping you with people you don't know?

Ambiturner_sl said:

So you think LFD is bad because it makes it much harder to get a group together when you don't know anyone, even though LFD's whole purpose it's grouping you with people you don't know?

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LFD is only part of the problem. I keep stating that when combining an LFD tool (that doesn't help you re-group with people), with cross server barriers, WITH shitty dungeons that don't require you to utter a word; it creates an environment where meeting new players becomes prohibitively difficult during the leveling game.

In order to have any kind of interaction that matters, people need to be able to easily find each other again, communicate in even the most basic way possible, and be given an environment where their efforts can differentiate them from their peers.

The current model of 30 minute sleep walk dungeons and random automated groups makes people interchangeable. You can literally have a class drop from the group, a new player of the same class get automatically put in their place and some people wont even notice. I have seen it happen. That's just fucked.

Pancreas_sl said:

In order to have any kind of interaction that matters, people need to be able to easily find each other again, communicate in even the most basic way possible, and be given an environment where their efforts can differentiate them from their peers.

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http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/ne...is_a_guild.php

Pay attention to the part about circles. Does that sound like something if it was combined with a LFD would be what you are looking for?

As for dungeons. I would like to see all kind of dungeons. The McDungeons that take around 20 minutes, larger ones with multiple paths that take longer and also uninstanced ones that could fit 100 people with multiple camps with some events thrown in like a public quest with a raid boss that pops randomly. I see no reason why they all can't be viable. The trick is that gold/items/exp per hour or run isn't heavily favored to one particular type. We all know that the playerbase will gravitate to the best rewards, so balance is key in that.

OK i had to post this... The best damn LFG Tool I have ever seen from DDO which it seems no one plays...

( Note: it is not automatic warp to dungeon )

Pancreas_sl said:

LFD is only part of the problem. I keep stating that when combining an LFD tool (that doesn't help you re-group with people), with cross server barriers, WITH shitty dungeons that don't require you to utter a word; it creates an environment where meeting new players becomes prohibitively difficult during the leveling game

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So, in the case of WoWs looking for dungeon system you can click three times and you're in a queue waiting to meet new people, kill old things you've probably done before and take their stuff. There's absolutely nothing stopping a player from requesting a battletag friend from a player in a dungeon they have just started, finished or in mid swing because they find them good at their job/class, or they are fun to play with. With that battletag, you can now talk to them, group with them, and do more dungeons with them via the looking for dungeon system. You can even talk to them while they are in game, and you're on your mobile with remote chat (or is that only guilds?).

I'm having a hard time reconciling "meeting new people" and "prohibitively difficult" being used in the same sentence with a straight face.

Pancreas_sl said:

LFD is only part of the problem. I keep stating that when combining an LFD tool (that doesn't help you re-group with people), with cross server barriers, WITH shitty dungeons that don't require you to utter a word; it creates an environment where meeting new players becomes prohibitively difficult during the leveling game.

In order to have any kind of interaction that matters, people need to be able to easily find each other again, communicate in even the most basic way possible, and be given an environment where their efforts can differentiate them from their peers.

The current model of 30 minute sleep walk dungeons and random automated groups makes people interchangeable. You can literally have a class drop from the group, a new player of the same class get automatically put in their place and some people wont even notice. I have seen it happen. That's just fucked.

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The tool is not the problem it's the content. WOW has a cross server friend list that you can build up. It's not harder to meet new people, even in shitty content, is easy. Just try talking to them. If they don't talk back, they're probably a shitty friend.

Draegan_sl said:

The tool is not the problem it's the content. WOW has a cross server friend list that you can build up. It's not harder to meet new people, even in shitty content, is easy. Just try talking to them. If they don't talk back, they're probably a shitty friend.

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Why won't you ever talk to me Draegan, I just want to chat...