Byr
Potato del Grande
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Not sure how you can conclude that, theyve featured PvP heavily in it. I wouldnt say its focused on either one but tries to be a catch all.
Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion
- Thread starter Flipmode
- Start date
Just like your statement about WoW not being a PvP game, I think you are wildly off base on both accounts. WoW has had a great many hours by many different people spent in PvP situations, not because it was just laying around and tacked on, but because it was fun, and they enjoyed doing it. If any of the other "PvP centric" games you mentioned had as smooth of game play and play style as WoW, then maybe more people would be playing them. The fact is the whole point of most MMOs is to cater to as large an audience as possible. Which means having both sides of the game be flesh out and fun. Which I believe Wildstar is on track to do. It has nothing to do with Esports or balance issues. If anything I would say the main complaint that PvP ruins PvE because of balance is 100% on the devs. There is no reason to not have slightly different rulesets and have abilities function differently between the two. Even poor Timmy can figure out the difference, especially since Wildstar has limited action abilities anyway.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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That's bullshit. EQ2 was ruined by their attempt at PVP balance. They even had a system to keep it separate from the PVE abilities. My enchanters were constantly nerfed every patch. Why? Their PVE abilities made them too powerful in PVP.
Class balance doesn't exist. I agree with you there. And that is the reason MMOs shouldn't have PVP at all. Why PVP if you can't have skill as the deciding factor? It's pointless. You want PVP, go play a MOBA or FPS. Skill plays a part there. But please stop trying to horse shoe it in MMOs. It's fucking terrible and ruins the main part of the game.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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And it's funny most of the people that love MMO PVP gravitate to the OP classes. They just like to grief and face roll people. And if they can't do that they bitch and leave the game anyways. Only, by that time the game is no longer enjoyable for either crowd anymore.
Umm, no, why cant the developers just come up with a system that doesnt make them effect each other? Outside of world PvP, which is usuaully pretty lacking anyway, there just shouldnt be a situations where a nerf or a buff to a pvp ability, should have any change whatsoever on a pve one. Thats just bad design. I understand that almost all games in the past have been ruined by this, I wont disagree with you there. Im just saying why cant there be a design that allows for both to exist in the game, and not effect each other? Why would you want one removed, there by losing the people that play these games for both sides, if not the ones that play it just for one side or another?
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Because you're expecting way, way too fucking much out of the average player. Most WoW PUGs you run with leveling up have difficulty handling a 5 button rotation with built-in powerauras screaming at you to hit that one ability. To have two sets of abilities with the same name having different effects? Blasphemy.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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These systems already exist in said games. The devs just don't follow thru on their promises and until they do I'm happy to lose the 15% that play for the PVP so the 85% that play for PVE can be left alone. If they ever get their shit together then fine.
They dont even have to have different effects. Which they already do in most games with lower durations on CC and the such. Its almost always just a behind the scenes number issue. And if there really are a few outlying abilities that they cant do that with, remove the ability over change the ability. Ill bring up LoL again. Basically there are only 4 abilities per champ, plus whatever effects you can get from items. On the different maps, some items are removed or replaced. It would be that same situation, and very few people would have a hard time figuring it out.
95% of all stats on the internet are made up. Lets not throw out random assumptions based on personal perference. If those systems existed and are failing, thats on the devs and game design, it should just be fixed, not remove any percent of your player base.
Of course MOBA design is not good for a PvE game. Why I was comparing to what they could do for the PvP side of things, since you know, MOBAs are pure PvP games. Obviously they have included both already, and just like most triple A MMOs are going to try and support both. If you want niche games that are either just PvP or PvE only, then go find those games. The big MMOs are almost always going to try and cater to both sides, so instead of throwing a fit and being upset and wanting one removed, why not try and come up with better solutions to have both exist in the game to make it fun for both sides? Why would that not be something you want?
Byr
Potato del Grande
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i would guess your enchanters were later more powerful by some means and so goes the attempt at class balance. The reason to have PvP again is it takes little effort for open ended end game content. Your players need to do something other than log in once a week for their raid while you spend months developing the next one, especially in sub games.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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I don't think we really disagree. It's just well no developer has done it yet. We only have past precedent to go by. In MMOs, the classes that are built to take and absorb damage with a few healing abilities and 3/4 of the DPS of a pure DPS class ALWAYS are the strongest. No MMO yet has been able to change that.
If they get creative and make each class 2 classes in one (one for PVP and one for PVE) then that's fine. But until I see it, I doubt they can or want to do it.
xzi
Mouthbreather
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Before you all cum in each others mouths I would just like to say that we currently know nothing about PvP or how it works other than you can't currently see telegraphs and there are battlegrounds, warplots and arenas.
What we DO know is they have said certain skills, such as CC abilities, work differently in PvE than they do in PvP. There isn't much reason for this derail for the 4th fucking time.
What we DO know is they have said certain skills, such as CC abilities, work differently in PvE than they do in PvP. There isn't much reason for this derail for the 4th fucking time.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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Actually they weren't. They lost their CC abilities usefulness, had buffs reduced in power and 1/2 the DPS of other casters. That's why they became rare and mythical like unicorns. Or relegated to alts and 2 boxes. That's all thanks to the shitty PVP trying to be tacked on.
I guess the PVP guys have to come out and try to shit up every PVE centric game. As of now, Wildstar seems like a PVE, with PVP side game tack on. Want pure pvp game, still have EVE and Darkfall (LOL).
Dear fucking christ I hope they keep PVP away from my game. The PVP jackholes have their own games to care about. Let me, for once, have my own.
Titan_Atlas
Deus Vult
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One of the pvp effecting pve problems we don't discuss is spell bloat. In pve having diverse spells with charms, cc's, and whatnot make it fun and add depth to classes. Maybe instead of different effects for all spells a system of instanced pvp with a small selected 6-8 button hotbar would make more sense.