Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

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Droigan

Trakanon Raider
2,501
1,168
Whidon1_sl said:
Why do people even compare modern raiding to stuff 10 years ago? You have a million advantages and such you never had back then of course it's going to be "more complex".
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I remember raids in EQ before I got a Voodoo card. Find a corner, look down, hit assist button, wait for tank to yell they had aggro, then nuke until oom, repeat. Don't think I saw much more than floor textures the first year. Fairly sure raids were designed to keep movement to a minimum. Raids where you had bards kiting adds, etc, weren't even conceivable early on.

That being said, I am not so sure I enjoy the whole "dance" thing more. Might not have moved much early on, but it was still tactical. No voice chat, so strict raid chat with guides and steps. Aggro management all the way. Now fights seem borderline chaos, with aggro management being second to every class dpsing while you can while running around still looking at the ground like the old days, but trying to stand in non colored gaps...

I miss the old days of being able to communicate and chat while raiding, where raids were a gathering of the guild. Got to know people fairly well too as there was lots of downtime.... I guess I'm like an old driver with the kids telling me to get the f* off the road because I am clotting up traffic. Move it old man, don't you see the red lights?!? run, jump, hoppeti hopp.....

Granted I don't want EQ raids again (later on, Plane of Fire raid as a Mage.... most boring thing ever. Black steel, black steel, black steel... One spell. One spell the entire raid. Fire resistant bastages), but rather have a medium between the old and the new twitch style gameplay.
 
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Devnull_sl

shitlord
94
0
X X E X X_sl said:
I remember them in Naxx but not in early MC.
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Addons were even more of a crutch during that time period. Blizzard hadn't restricted the API much yet.

EmergencyMonitor: A real-time sorted list of the lowest health in the raid. Let you 1 button 'smart heal' the entire raid.

HateMe: 1 button tank spam

Decursive: 1 button cleanse the entire raid

WhisperCast: lazy mode buffing that many groups forced you to use

Plus, the entire zone didn't enter combat, so you could have a healer stand back and ooc rez anyone that died.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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The OOC rez thing was fixed very early, it was fixed during MC and not even that long into it. Decursive was fixed during BWL. I don't remember Hateme but you could just run a macro anyway, it was back when you could do Rift style macros with all your buttons in one macro and it'd spam whatever was up, mostly tanking was about spamming shield block, mortal strike/shield slam depending on how much you cared about tanking(really didn't need full prot until late AQ/naxx), revenge on proc and heroic strike to dump additional rage, and there was a stun maybe? Maybe that was revenge though and the stun was only for huhuran, I remember some shit like that, maybe it was prot spec only. Whispercast was so you didn't have to call on vent for rebuffs because the healers were alt tabbed, or if you were lucky enough to be a paladin with their 5mins blessings, great fucking design 5mins single target blessings in 40man raids. Luckily I played horde, so we had totems instead and no fear ward or threat reduction(until they added the air one, which was great since air was the best fucking totem already so you still didn't have threat and mostly threat was done by pulling aggro, dying and using a soulstone).

But yeah addons were important to raiding even back then. Especially raid frames cause like the basic ones were absolute fucking trash and threat meter for BWL and on, and boss timers which weren't DBM yet but were still a thing. And more basic shit like target of target frame, more than 1 fucking hotkey bar addon. And that proxmity addon for Chtun that was like BEEEP BEEEP, motherfucker move away from me my ears are bleeding.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
8,633
3,839
My guild was like 3rd best PVE and 1st PVP. Considering we were the "everyone related to you or you know from work/college/highschool/drug deals can join!" guild. We managed to get to Naxx 1.0 where we eventually got the bug boss down (I had quit or something during this time) and never any farther. We literally had like 5-10 allstars carrying the fuck out of 30 people every raid. I think Wildstar will be the same, but I think if you come at it with a different mindset now you could easily progress efficiently in raid content.

We're not all 12-16 year olds in EQ/WoW. We (some of us) are goddamn 20+ year olds who know they can't be friends with everyone if they want the best weaponz in the game. And I'm okay with that.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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I think assuming you'll be able to actually progress in Wildstar with 10players carrying 30fucktards is a bit optimistic. For one, the game mechanics are a lot more action intensive than in vanilla wow, they require you to actually do shit. Then the tuning is most likely going to be a lot more like modern wow than it was in vanilla wow. As in, once 5 of your DPS die to the first Touhou bullet hell telegraphs, you will need to call a wipe due to not having the possibility of actually finishing the encounter before the soft enrage(they don't do real enrages they said, on most fights, but they all have mechanics that are similar to enrage). And you'll do it again and again until they either learn to dodge it, or you call it a night. And if you do, after 2 or 3 nights, people will stop logging, saying they have important stuff to do that evening and shit. And then the week timer will reset, and like a miracle, everyone will be free for the first night where you'll be killing the easy bosses for loots. But sadly, not for the day after when you're doing wipes to learn the encounters. I mean it's the same shit it was during wow, even after it was down to 25.

I highly doubt they'll balance the encounters on the assumption that over half your raid is a bunch of retards who is going to stand in the fire. Cause that'd make the content pretty fucking shit for everyone else. At least, it won't be that way at first, maybe they'll add a retard friendly mode later on.
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,312
9,421
Xevy_sl said:
We're not all 12-16 year olds in EQ/WoW. We (some of us) are goddamn 20+ year olds who know they can't be friends with everyone if they want the best weaponz in the game. And I'm okay with that.
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Bitterest truth yet spoken about these "social" games. My friends list has a shit ton of people in it that arent even in the same guild, much less the same content. Its like work ~ If the position is meaningful to the company, I would never hire a friend.

My guild didnt make it very far in Naxx, either. Dont feel bad. I just dont remember any of the damn addons. Maybe it was because I was Hunter... and God forbid, maybe I was being carried!
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elvis_sl

shitlord
61
0
Daidraco_sl said:
Hell, I cant even remember if addons had made a big appearance yet. I dont recall anything like Deadly Boss Mods, thats for fucking sure.
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there was ct_raid, but i dont even remember if it did anything outside of actual raid frames and something like geddon addon that whispered you when were the bomb. hell, back then there wasn't even a decent dps meter outside of one that had to synch with your 40 other people in order to be accurate and would most likely lag everyone to fuck. thats one of the reason shit was hard back then, you didn't even have a clue who was performing well and who wasnt.

these days you have meters and breakdowns, and get a loud trumpet and a flashing red screen when you stand in shit you are not supposed to stand in, as well as huge glowing buttons if something just procced and you should activate whatever ability that benefits from it. so yeah, no wonder they had to amp up the difficulty.
 
Malakriss

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,373
11,778
Pyros_sl said:
The OOC rez thing was fixed very early, it was fixed during MC and not even that long into it.
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Out of combat rezz wasn't fixed until mid BWL. It was required to use it because taunt was broken on the drakes so you had to do rotating deaths for all dps and healers to eliminate threat, even as alliance with salv. First clears were single tanked with max 315 resist with the Firemaw stack still going up to 30+ which left you praying for a string of resists so the debuff could roll off and reset.

Most of vanilla was like that, where addons and the exploit mechanics were required for the first month or two because the encounters were all buggy as hell. Usually the devs were smart and fixed the encounters before nerfing the sploits. But then you'd get situations where they "fixed" ebonroc and made taunt work properly.. if you only used 1 taunt, but if you had multiple taunts the thing went batshit crazy and shadow flamed god knows which direction.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Oh now that you say that I think I remember it, thought they forced combat in the entire zone during MC cause I remember retards bitching about dying on Geddon and not being able to get rezed because they fixed it, but since my memories are foggy, it might have been more of a case of having a new recruit be the ooc healer and him getting into combat at that point. BWL was such a broken piece of shit though.

AQ40 was a lot more stable, and so was naxx. Way less exploits and shit. Still some exploits like for AQ40 there was this big drama because apparently chtun's room was connected to the entrance or some shit so if you edited out the stone that blocked the stairs you could skip everything to the end(it was just a model edit nothing special but by changing its shape the client accepted you walking through it since it wasn't a real solid block). It's just BWL was released before they added the PTR, no one had tested that shit.
 
Caliane

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
14,625
10,135
I don't remember suiciding on drakes. or ooc not being fixed until BWL either. pretty sure that was fixed in MC as well. Maybe hes just forgetting druid in combat rez? or maybe we just refused to use it, dunno.
admittedly have forgotten most of that stuff, as well.
 
Miele

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
Nehrak_sl said:
I'll take "Boss auto attacks for $2000, Alex." Yes, it was clocking the tank for 2-4k, no special attacks. People have around 7-8.5k hp, around 2.9-3.5k shields at level 20. Not an insignificant amount of damage.

I was wondering about if the tank was using any mitigation abilities, though; I haven't looked through what the tank roles get yet. All I know is that just simply being melee'd by the Stormcaller/first boss in Stormtalon's Lair was an insane amount of damage.
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Tanks have and must use quite an array of skills to not get smeared on the floor, if they don't, it means that they are either trying to tank in dps gear with a hybrid LAS or are just unable to understand what's required of them (yet).
Engineers for example drop Unsteady Miasma that when managed properly, makes it so that 1 attack out of 4 will miss (25% deflect), they should use their bruiserbot tier 4 to get an extra 3,5% (soon to be 6,5% I think) deflect. Some (yes, it happens) don't even remember to use their tank stance, but those you can spot easily.
I'm not very familiar with warriors and I know stalkers should use their nano-fields quite often to stay alive, but I don't have really much experience yet in game to comment on these classes.

What it boils down to is just something simple: people take a shitload of damage because they don't play like they are supposed to, some adapt and learn quickly, others are dead meat every single time.
This game is mean, not hard, just mean... take disorient for example, it mixes up your keyboard commands, so you want to move right and the game moves you in a different direction! Oh damn, sometimes it's a bitch.

I was doing some questing with my engineer at level 11, just started this character and all that jazz. I like bots, I can take down mobs easily, blah blah. Then I see this named labeled for a group of 5 and I say "oh, I'm an engineer, I can take that!", I engage, bruiserbot tanks for a couple seconds, then the mob does this big huge ass (super fast) telegraph and my super slow engineer was caught firing, which slows the char down by 30% or something like that, so I eat a disorient, move in the wrong direction and bigbadabum, I'm 1-shotted.
I think I'm in for some serious surprises down the road.
 
Selix

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
Miele_sl said:
Tanks have and must use quite an array of skills to not get smeared on the floor, if they don't, it means that they are either trying to tank in dps gear with a hybrid LAS or are just unable to understand what's required of them (yet).
Engineers for example drop Unsteady Miasma that when managed properly, makes it so that 1 attack out of 4 will miss (25% deflect), they should use their bruiserbot tier 4 to get an extra 3,5% (soon to be 6,5% I think) deflect. Some (yes, it happens) don't even remember to use their tank stance, but those you can spot easily.
I'm not very familiar with warriors and I know stalkers should use their nano-fields quite often to stay alive, but I don't have really much experience yet in game to comment on these classes.

What it boils down to is just something simple: people take a shitload of damage because they don't play like they are supposed to, some adapt and learn quickly, others are dead meat every single time.
This game is mean, not hard, just mean... take disorient for example, it mixes up your keyboard commands, so you want to move right and the game moves you in a different direction! Oh damn, sometimes it's a bitch.

I was doing some questing with my engineer at level 11, just started this character and all that jazz. I like bots, I can take down mobs easily, blah blah. Then I see this named labeled for a group of 5 and I say "oh, I'm an engineer, I can take that!", I engage, bruiserbot tanks for a couple seconds, then the mob does this big huge ass (super fast) telegraph and my super slow engineer was caught firing, which slows the char down by 30% or something like that, so I eat a disorient, move in the wrong direction and bigbadabum, I'm 1-shotted.
I think I'm in for some serious surprises down the road.
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This. If I stick with my engineer and decide to learn how to tank there is a good chance I'll be even more valuable as a tank then tanks are in other MMO's. And if you thought tanks could be arrogant before.. muwhahahahahaaa.
 
T

TheYanger

Bronze Knight of the Realm
264
30
Derpa_sl said:
It is ok buddy, someday you will get 4/14H in SOO
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Are you serious right now?
Just to clear something up
Marza @ MalGanis - Community - World of Warcraft
Fucking retard. You're welcome if you ever did a Challenge Mode btw.
I think most of us like to assume this kind of 'argument' you bring up would not exist on this forum, thanks for proving me wrong.

Pyros_sl said:
The OOC rez thing was fixed very early, it was fixed during MC and not even that long into it. Decursive was fixed during BWL. I don't remember Hateme but you could just run a macro anyway, it was back when you could do Rift style macros with all your buttons in one macro and it'd spam whatever was up, mostly tanking was about spamming shield block, mortal strike/shield slam depending on how much you cared about tanking(really didn't need full prot until late AQ/naxx), revenge on proc and heroic strike to dump additional rage, and there was a stun maybe? Maybe that was revenge though and the stun was only for huhuran, I remember some shit like that, maybe it was prot spec only. Whispercast was so you didn't have to call on vent for rebuffs because the healers were alt tabbed, or if you were lucky enough to be a paladin with their 5mins blessings, great fucking design 5mins single target blessings in 40man raids. Luckily I played horde, so we had totems instead and no fear ward or threat reduction(until they added the air one, which was great since air was the best fucking totem already so you still didn't have threat and mostly threat was done by pulling aggro, dying and using a soulstone).

But yeah addons were important to raiding even back then. Especially raid frames cause like the basic ones were absolute fucking trash and threat meter for BWL and on, and boss timers which weren't DBM yet but were still a thing. And more basic shit like target of target frame, more than 1 fucking hotkey bar addon. And that proxmity addon for Chtun that was like BEEEP BEEEP, motherfucker move away from me my ears are bleeding.
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OOC Rez was like, the same time BWL came out. The drakes pulsed zonewide combat as far back as I recall (maybe the first week they didn't, since most of us were stuck behind broken Vael gates?)

Decursive wasn't fixed until 2.0 That's why those naxx bosses would put out like 20 curses at once to challenge the mod.
 
Xexx

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,453
1,655
Xevy_sl said:
My guild was like 3rd best PVE and 1st PVP. Considering we were the "everyone related to you or you know from work/college/highschool/drug deals can join!" guild. We managed to get to Naxx 1.0 where we eventually got the bug boss down (I had quit or something during this time) and never any farther. We literally had like 5-10 allstars carrying the fuck out of 30 people every raid. I think Wildstar will be the same, but I think if you come at it with a different mindset now you could easily progress efficiently in raid content.

We're not all 12-16 year olds in EQ/WoW. We (some of us) are goddamn 20+ year olds who know they can't be friends with everyone if they want the best weaponz in the game. And I'm okay with that.
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Nod - we had 1st rag and not many were under 20, we were just organized. Pretty sure our server opened AQ gates first too - and perhaps first c'thun kill? dont remember but early 40 mans were fun and organized but i dont think id like to do them again. I like 20-25.
 
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TheYanger

Bronze Knight of the Realm
264
30
X X E X X_sl said:
Nod - we had 1st rag and not many were under 20, we were just organized. Pretty sure our server opened AQ gates first too - and perhaps first c'thun kill? dont remember but early 40 mans were fun and organized but i dont think id like to do them again. I like 20-25.
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I feel like if you were partof the AQ gates you'd remember :p But since you're on Thrall I suppose you could've been in Ascent and the name is familiar? /shrug
Anyway, it was Medivh, and first C'thun was kind of irrelevent since it died a billion times the day they fixed it.
 
V

velk

Trakanon Raider
2,559
1,134
Nehrak_sl said:
I'll take "Boss auto attacks for $2000, Alex." Yes, it was clocking the tank for 2-4k, no special attacks. People have around 7-8.5k hp, around 2.9-3.5k shields at level 20. Not an insignificant amount of damage.

I was wondering about if the tank was using any mitigation abilities, though; I haven't looked through what the tank roles get yet. All I know is that just simply being melee'd by the Stormcaller/first boss in Stormtalon's Lair was an insane amount of damage.
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That was the last dungeon revamp. First pass they nerfed the shit out of specials, which made it too easy. Second pass they buffed the shit out of white damage. Most people have said it keeps constant pressure on heals.
 
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