Windows 8

Alkorin_sl said:

European? What? I'm Canadian.

Yes, Metro is shit. So were Vista's metadata issues. So was Windows ME. So were 15 character NetBIOS name limitations. So were 8.3 file names. Hell, so were 8 character unix user names back at the dawn of time. My point is, shake your head and move on, it works wonders and you can focus on things that matter.

You know, like chatting while gaming, or shopping while watching. Whatever works for you.

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Psssh, other wrongs doesn't make this one, Metro, right. This thread is dedicated to whining about Windows 8, not the previous versions. Using your own argument, go focus on things that mater (to you). Cheers.

Alkorin_sl said:

Forgot who I was arguing with for a moment here. I said "reasonable people".

In the grand scheme of things, Metro doesn't even come close to the top the list of things Windows has done wrong. Of all the UI changes Microsoft has forced on us, I'd say the Ribbon beats Metro handily in the "fuck off" department. But hey, whatever.

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Listen, numbnuts - I didn't quote your post in the first place - it wasdirected at Jeydax, mkay? mkay. You tried to hijack this by attacking me. Talk about being 'reasonable people'. Now I'll humor you for a sec, but don't pretend like I engaged you, mkay? mkay.
No one is claiming Metro is the worst thing Microsoft has done. I've seen many other atrocities when I worked as a TSM and CCNA certified storage technician. But for my current usage - running basic windows programs, a piece of hardware and 3rd party programs, yeah, metro sucks balls for numerous reasons we've been over in this thread before. Now, if you want to whine about the office suite (and I agree btw) or some other feature, be my guest - but the thread name is 'windows 8'. Capisce?

Luthair_sl said:

Personally I'll take not having the ribbon in explorer over a graph for file copying and a buggy ass start menu replacement.

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Classic Start/Shell isn't buggy at all. I've never had it crash on me (anecdotal) but it has been rock solid enough to recommend it to everyone.

Izo_sl said:

I think the logical answer is, that Windows 8 metro tries to bridge the gap to handheld tabs and in doing so fuck over desk top user.

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Agreed 100%. But that doesn't make the entire OS shit unless you pretend there aren'tvery fucking simple and quicksolutions.

Izo_sl said:

It does not add netto functionality - it is a dysfunction, not a feature. It should not be a default installation selection. Having to use 3rd party programs to fix this is appalling. This does in no way compare to a driver - a piece of software allowing windows to communicate with hardware.

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The point I was trying to make is nearly everyone who uses a PC uses 3rd party software to perform functions on a daily basis from the browser, to zip files, to music, to video, to games, and so on and so forth. I'd say a lot of those I just listed (except for maybe games) would be considered a pretty standard requirement in a modern OS. Everyone installs/ed Chrome/Firefox without batting an eye because IE was horseshit (slightly better now). Windows Media Player sucks balls so people use Foobar/VLC/KM Player/etc. 7zip (and Winrar to an extent) is vastly superior to the built-in zip program for XP/7/8. Why is it so appalling that you need to take a moment to install a 3rd party program to fix the start menu? I guess you could argue this is a graphical interface change but you could say the same thing about browsers more or less. And you're right, it isn't the same thing as a driver but I was mostly mentioning that because of the time involved doing drivers vs. time involved installing Classic Start/Shell.

I'd love to hear an argument from someone who hates 8/8.1 and ask them this question: Pretend you have an OS with an improved Windows 7 start menu (and completely removed Metro unless you absolutely want to access it) but everything else is Windows 8/8.1 - tell me why you think 8/8.1 is shit now? Would you use 7 or 8/8.1 and why?

Phelps McManus_sl said:

I suppress a cringe every time I see a coworker who has fucked up their associations such that a 3rd party app opens every time they click on a "compressed folder" (.zip). Am I missing some feature that makes it better, other than supporting other compression formats I rarely use?

Chrome (or Firefox) I "get" for Web Developer consoles, greasemonkey, and other stuff.

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7-Zip does a better job of creating smaller zip (or other format) files when compressing, and it does it in a faster way (both compressing and decompressing).It also adds shortcuts to quickly compress or decompress files and other file formats (seriously, you never work with ISOs, JARs, or RARs?) It does things faster and more efficiently than the built-in. I cringe when I have to help a coworker who DOESN'T have 7zip on their computer.

I could make similar arguments for using programs like Foobar (more file formats, lighter than WMP), VLC (ditto, more codecs?, ease of use, etc). But that is a waste of breath and common sense.

jeydax_sl said:

Classic Start/Shell isn't buggy at all. I've never had it crash on me (anecdotal) but it has been rock solid enough to recommend it to everyone.



The point I was trying to make is nearly everyone who uses a PC uses 3rd party software to perform functions on a daily basis from the browser, to zip files, to music, to video, to games, and so on and so forth. I'd say a lot of those I just listed (except for maybe games) would be considered a pretty standard requirement in a modern OS. Everyone installs/ed Chrome/Firefox without batting an eye because IE was horseshit (slightly better now). Windows Media Player sucks balls so people use Foobar/VLC/KM Player/etc. 7zip (and Winrar to an extent) is vastly superior to the built-in zip program for XP/7/8. Why is it so appalling that you need to take a moment to install a 3rd party program to fix the start menu? I guess you could argue this is a graphical interface change but you could say the same thing about browsers more or less. And you're right, it isn't the same thing as a driver but I was mostly mentioning that because of the time involved doing drivers vs. time involved installing Classic Start/Shell.

I'd love to hear an argument from someone who hates 8/8.1 and ask them this question: Pretend you have an OS with an improved Windows 7 start menu (and completely removed Metro unless you absolutely want to access it) but everything else is Windows 8/8.1 - tell me why you think 8/8.1 is shit now? Would you use 7 or 8/8.1 and why?

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All the programs you list are usable, basic built-in windows programs. They do not hinder productivity. Sure, they might be lacking - but not really. Now if you had to stand on one leg and cluck like a chicken as a requirement for using IE, media player, windows zip, etc, we'd be reaching metro levels of obstruction. That's not even getting into the obvious market ploy, of adding basic functionality as to enable developers to add value to the windows platform - this is obvious to anyone who's worked professionally with IT, Microsoft products and major software suites. Does it take five mins to set up an enterprise storage software? No? It's not basic functionality either.

Metro is a hindrance, not an improvement of the start menu. It's redesigned with a completely different agenda at hand - it's for integrating touch. I can do any metro touch part better with a mouse and keyboard on my laptop/desktop. If it must be there, it should disabled per default - and enabled, by choice, if you want touch functionality. Design engineers know what I'm talking about - innovation vs improvements.

Who cares how much time it takes to remove? It shouldn't be there in the first place - and Microsoft knows this. I don't dress, and then take a shower, and then argue getting the clothes wet doesn't matter, as it's easy to change. The default position is, and should be, disabled unless needed.

No one who understands that metro is not windows is saying windows 8/8.1 sucks compared to windows 7, quite the opposite - it's a vast improvement, as you'd expect. Metro on the other hand, is steps back - keep that shit on pads.

Metro - Abomination - be gone from my pc.

So you're agreeing that Windows 8/8.1 is a superior OS when you install Classic Start/Shell and that it is quite stupid to have Metro as the default UI (since it is pure shit) and that people who say 8/8.1 is shit because of that are just as stupid as MS?

jeydax_sl said:

So you're agreeing that Windows 8/8.1 is a superior OS when you install Classic Start/Shell and that it is quite stupid to have Metro as the default UI (since it is pure shit) and that people who say 8/8.1 is shit because of that are just as stupid as MS?

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No, I said windows 8/8.1 without metro installed per default is a superior OS to Windows 7. That's not the same as saying patching it with 3rd party program makes it superior. As it is now, it's inferior - if we consider Metro part if Windows 8/8.1. I'll happily consider it not a part of windows - as the 3rd party program clearly show is possible - not to mention all the previous versions of windows. Do you see the difference, or do you like putting words in my mouth? Either way, try to be intellectually honest and faithful to the post you sum up. Other than that, I think we agree - Windows 8/8.1 without metro is nice - we disagree on the method - Microsoft needs to remedy this. It's a matter of design vs dominance in the touch market.

Izo_sl said:

No, I said windows 8/8.1 without metro installed per default is a superior OS to Windows 7. That's not the same as saying patching it with 3rd party program makes it superior. As it is now, it's inferior - if we consider Metro part if Windows 8/8.1. I'll happily consider it not a part of windows - as the 3rd party program clearly show is possible - not to mention all the previous versions of windows. Do you see the difference, or do you like putting words in my mouth? Either way, try to be intellectually honest and faithful to the post you sum up. Other than that, I think we agree - Windows 8/8.1 without metro is nice - we disagree on the method - Microsoft needs to remedy this. It's a matter of design vs dominance in the touch market.

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Why so hostile? Jesus, I was trying to get a legit opinion from someone with a differing point of view and perhaps I misread your post - you did word a few things quite poorly but that's neither here nor there. In no way was I trying to put words in your mouth.

Most people which buy 8.1 or 8 wont take the time to do all that shit, so yes, win 8 to them is a POS. No matter how better under the hood it is. Its like the ferari you always wanted, but you sit down inside and it does not have a steering wheel or steering shaft. And for you to make it work you have to install one yourself.

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Eh, I see the point you're trying to make but I think it is more that you buy the Ferrari and it takes too much fucking around to start the radio or shut the car off unless you install a third party piece that is quite readily available that takes 15 seconds to install to bring it back to normal.

Bottom line: If someone asks me which OS to install on their machine I tell them 8/8.1 with Classic Start and I explain why. Telling them anything else is rather disingenuous - it doesn't matter if you think Metro should be removed by default or not if you show them how to remove it from the equation. It is the better choice for an OS.

jeydax_sl said:

Why so hostile? Jesus, I was trying to get a legit opinion from someone with a differing point of view and perhaps I misread your post - you did word a few things quite poorly but that's neither here nor there. In no way was I trying to put words in your mouth.



Eh, I see the point you're trying to make but I think it is more that you buy the Ferrari and it takes too much fucking around to start the radio or shut the car off unless you install a third party piece that is quite readily available that takes 15 seconds to install to bring it back to normal.

Bottom line: If someone asks me which OS to install on their machine I tell them 8/8.1 with Classic Start and I explain why. Telling them anything else is rather disingenuous - it doesn't matter if you think Metro should be removed by default or not if you show them how to remove it from the equation. It is the better choice for an OS.

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Aggression is my middle name, nothing personal. As for your bottom line: It does matter, that metro is there. Try teaching this tech shit (yes, installing a program) to chicks or your parents. They want what they're used to - and so do I. I recommend people like these stay with 7, so that they're not screwed if they have to do a roll back or get IT support from someone else than the person thinking 3rd party programs are essential for basic operation. The difference is I am somewhat tech savy and can work around metro - and thus run Windows 8.1.

No, it doesn't matter. If you're intellectually honest to the post you're quoting you'd realize that I said 8/8.1 with Classsic Start (aka remove Metro) and I'd explain why. In fact you just did it for me: They want what they're used to. I always send them an email with how to install Classic Start because with ninite even my grandparents could install it. In fact that is how I've had my gramma install TeamViewer for me to help her and she had zero issues following my instructions. If the person can operate a computer for basic email and internet functions they can install Classic Start.

90% of the time if their shit goes haywire I always end up fixing it for them anyways as opposed to them spending exuberant amounts of money to Geeksquad or the like. This is typically done over TeamViewer anyways (GASP ANOTHER THIRD PARTY PROGRAM) or they bring it to me with a case of beer.

mkopec_sl said:

Exactly. Yes it takes me or you 15 seconds to fix the shit. But for every me or you there is 1000 idiots which want shit to work out of the box. I fixed my mother in laws laptop that had win 8 and I know all about that shit. Every few weeks I have to fix it because, guess what, metro is back and she is fucking lost.

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Then you are not installing Classic Start or have installed another program.

jeydax_sl said:

No, it doesn't matter. If you're intellectually honest to the post you're quoting you'd realize that I said 8/8.1 with Classsic Start (aka remove Metro) and I'd explain why. In fact you just did it for me: They want what they're used to. I always send them an email with how to install Classic Start because with ninite even my grandparents could install it. In fact that is how I've had my gramma install TeamViewer for me to help her and she had zero issues following my instructions. If the person can operate a computer for basic email and internet functions they can install Classic Start.

90% of the time if their shit goes haywire I always end up fixing it for them anyways as opposed to them spending exuberant amounts of money to Geeksquad or the like. This is typically done over TeamViewer anyways (GASP ANOTHER THIRD PARTY PROGRAM) or they bring it to me with a case of beer.

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You're putting emphasis on you being there to fix it or guiding them. I'm putting emphasis on me being too busy to help them beyond the initial installation. They're on their own after this. As mkopec pointed out, most elderly are lost if anything goes fucky-fucky, and Metro pops op again. Sure I can remove metro initially. That's not the point. The point is the next guy whom inevitably will have to help them wont know what I did. Simple as that. Ninite is not for everyone, despite it being super easy, nor do I trust it with a pc that's to be used with banking software. I'd tell you how I used to manage storage for several banks, but whatever. You be the support guy for your family all you want - I've moved on beyond supplying them with - to use mkopec's words again - what works out of the box, and continue to do so. Cheers.

I have a friend at work that got a laptop over Christmas and she's been thoroughly frustrated with Windows 8. I keep telling her to bring it to work so I can install Start8 so she can go back to a Windows 7 like interface.