World of Warcraft: Classic

Sylas

Sylas

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Aight trying to optimize my play without getting too sweaty about it.

Long story short theres a hunter that blows me (and everyone else) out of the water. Like this hunter does twice the dps of #2. Theres also a feral druid that out performs me when he is in dps mode but usually hes tanking. Im not trying to beat these guys just dont wanna get embarrassed by them.

Even with my scrub play and non bis gear im usually top 3-4 dps. I mean my guild is one of those mega guilds with 500 members, 400 of them are sub 80, and only like 20 of the level 80s care about raiding. We typically have to pug a few spots in our 25 mans. Talking casual here.

Now they are both full bis and im about 20% bis, both are engineers using goblin thermal sappers on cd, etc they are going to outperform me until i close the gap in gear and start on tradeskills (at 1 engineering and jc right now) also im not using enchants in any of my non-bis slots, i know that plays a part as well.

And there is another frost dk thats at my level or just above me. Our gear is roughly the same his is slightly better, but he rotates in death and decay on cd somehow? Thats really the only difference i can see in the logs. I dont know how he fits dnd in his rotation but when grouping with random dks in heroics i sometimes see other frost dks using it as well.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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Sylas said:
Now they are both full bis and im about 20% bis, both are engineers using goblin thermal sappers on cd, etc they are going to outperform me until i close the gap in gear and start on tradeskills (at 1 engineering and jc right now) also im not using enchants in any of my non-bis slots, i know that plays a part as well.
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Did you hit "post reply" prematurely?

Non bis enchants are pretty cheap eg +85 attack power on 2h weapon instead of +110. Likewise, the next level down of leg enchant or gem etc. You should at least have something on those items. You have no idea how long the wait will be for BIS items to drop or what order you will receive them.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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I know im just lazy man. Plus im saving up for fast flying mount and then i gotta start the tradeskill grind. I dont wanna spend gold on shit that im going to replace in a day or a week. Yeah if i get unlucky and end up waiting a month on a single slot sure ill enchant what i have. Ill check on the cost of cheaper enchants ig its really cheap i guess ill do it.

I guess what im saying is: I know there are areas i can improve: gear, enchants, tradeskills. I know about these shortcomings. What i wanna know is how i can improve my play itself? Like for example i see some frost DKs rotating in death and decay? How are they doing that. Etc
 
Caeden

Caeden

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Sylas said:
I know im just lazy man. Plus im saving up for fast flying mount and then i gotta start the tradeskill grind. I dont wanna spend gold on shit that im going to replace in a day or a week. Yeah if i get unlucky and end up waiting a month on a single slot sure ill enchant what i have. Ill check on the cost of cheaper enchants ig its really cheap i guess ill do it.

I guess what im saying is: I know there are areas i can improve: gear, enchants, tradeskills. I know about these shortcomings. What i wanna know is how i can improve my play itself? Like for example i see some frost DKs rotating in death and decay? How are they doing that. Etc
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Frost DKs should not be rotating in DND. Unholy does. I’m pretty sure DND is a net dps loss for frost. Same as army if not precast. Unholy DKs are mopping the floor. Some fights I dip because movement kills uptime in DND. But I’m usually 1-2 with our other unholy. 7500dps or so. Not bis. And I don’t have engineering.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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Sylas said:
I guess what im saying is: I know there are areas i can improve: gear, enchants, tradeskills. I know about these shortcomings. What i wanna know is how i can improve my play itself? Like for example i see some frost DKs rotating in death and decay? How are they doing that. Etc
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git gud scrub
 
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Sylas

Sylas

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Caeden said:
Frost DKs should not be rotating in DND. Unholy does. I’m pretty sure DND is a net dps loss for frost. Same as army if not precast. Unholy DKs are mopping the floor. Some fights I dip because movement kills uptime in DND. But I’m usually 1-2 with our other unholy. 7500dps or so. Not bis. And I don’t have engineering.
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Yes this is my understanding as well that i should not be using dnd, but i see some frost DKs using it, and they are comparable dps. This confirms my belief that i would lose dps if i started using dnd, and the reason we are comparable dps is either his superior gear/enchants or my shitty play.

Actually thought he was unholy, only noticed he was frost because i kept hearing rime procs but they werent mine.

Im doing about 3.5k or so dps in heroics (depends on buffs) and pushing at most 4.2k dps in raids. 7.5k dps is what our full bis sweaty hunter is pushing out. If you are pulling that down not bis then i may have to look into unholy spec myself.

You have to snapshot gargoyle right but since your ghoul is permanent do you have to (or can you) snapshot your ghoul also? How does that work.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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Sylas said:
Yes this is my understanding as well that i should not be using dnd, but i see some frost DKs using it, and they are comparable dps. This confirms my belief that i would lose dps if i started using dnd, and the reason we are comparable dps is either his superior gear/enchants or my shitty play.

Actually thought he was unholy, only noticed he was frost because i kept hearing rime procs but they werent mine.

Im doing about 3.5k or so dps in heroics (depends on buffs) and pushing at most 4.2k dps in raids. 7.5k dps is what our full bis sweaty hunter is pushing out. If you are pulling that down not bis then i may have to look into unholy spec myself.

You have to snapshot gargoyle right but since your ghoul is permanent do you have to (or can you) snapshot your ghoul also? How does that work.
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You can. Same as gargoyle I think. I don’t. That’s above my willingness to sweat. I swap to UP before pull and prepot 1s before pull, run in and IT, PS, BS, DND , rune tap, ghoul frenzy, Garry, erw, army, flop back to blood presence the it ps. I’ve seen dps as high as 12k during that. Your dps will taper on long fights until you get a second gargoyle.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Ok so you can only snap shot the ghoul if its not permanent, the permanent ghoul isn't snapshottable.

I respec'd and gave it a shot in daily heroic dungeons and fucked it away big time, was doing less dmg than frost.

Then i went to 25m Naxx and i'm definitely outperforming the other DK who usually is right above me. like 1-1.5k dps increase. still not 7.5k or anything but 5.5k is doable. I have no trnkets or really the right gear to get much from snapshotting can just do Unholy presence, i can imagine i'll do more dmg when i have gear for it.
 
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WorryPlaysGames

WorryPlaysGames

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Some of the changes to Ulduar sound really good - Pre nerf everything back to it's hardest form to start, the new Titan Rune dungeons are good, them saying ToC will be short, all good things coming from the devs on this expansion.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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Sylas said:
Ok so you can only snap shot the ghoul if its not permanent, the permanent ghoul isn't snapshottable.

I respec'd and gave it a shot in daily heroic dungeons and fucked it away big time, was doing less dmg than frost.

Then i went to 25m Naxx and i'm definitely outperforming the other DK who usually is right above me. like 1-1.5k dps increase. still not 7.5k or anything but 5.5k is doable. I have no trnkets or really the right gear to get much from snapshotting can just do Unholy presence, i can imagine i'll do more dmg when i have gear for it.
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Cool. Yeah. I probably misremembered on the pet.

DMC greatness is worth like 1000 of my dps fwiw. I’m probably overestimating. In heroics shit dies to fast. I’m around 3-4k dps usually in heroics but I don’t go ham always.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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So that i understand what is erw in your opener stand for? Empower rune weapon? I thought this is what you meant by rune tap? Kind of confused.

I think i understand the gist, but maybe not. I downloaded that weak aura that tells you exactly what order to use shit during opener it seems pretty neat.

I only dicked around with unholy for a little bit. I did get a naxx raid but because my guild waited til monday we ended up having to pug half the spots and we only cleared through sapph. Wiped on KT at 7% and lost too many healers to get it done (it was late). Our priests were just not getting MC on rasuvius and we wasted like half an hour on that fight alone.


Edit to elaborate (sorry typing on my cell phone) you said your opener is: run in and IT(-1 frost), PS(-1 unholy), BS(-1 blood), DND(-1 frost, unholy, blood)

at this point all runes are on cooldown frost is the first to recharge in 7 seconds (in unholy presence so 1sec gc) then you said:

rune tap(-1 blood rune for 10% health?, i thought you meant erw here to reset your runes + get you over 60 runic power for garg, cus rune tap just heals you not sure why you would do this)

then: ghoul frenzy(-1 unholy), Garry(-60 runic power, but you dont have enough runic power yet.. this is why i thought you meant erw earlier instead of rune tap)

but then you listed erw again before army, flop back to blood presence then it ps.

Can you elaborate?
 
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Crone

Crone

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WorryPlaysGames said:
Some of the changes to Ulduar sound really good - Pre nerf everything back to it's hardest form to start, the new Titan Rune dungeons are good, them saying ToC will be short, all good things coming from the devs on this expansion.
Click to expand...
Did they have a thing lately? announcement or stream where they talked about all this?
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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Sylas said:
So that i understand what is erw in your opener stand for? Empower rune weapon? I thought this is what you meant by rune tap? Kind of confused.

I think i understand the gist, but maybe not. I downloaded that weak aura that tells you exactly what order to use shit during opener it seems pretty neat.

I only dicked around with unholy for a little bit. I did get a naxx raid but because my guild waited til monday we ended up having to pug half the spots and we only cleared through sapph. Wiped on KT at 7% and lost too many healers to get it done (it was late). Our priests were just not getting MC on rasuvius and we wasted like half an hour on that fight alone.


Edit to elaborate (sorry typing on my cell phone) you said your opener is: run in and IT(-1 frost), PS(-1 unholy), BS(-1 blood), DND(-1 frost, unholy, blood)

at this point all runes are on cooldown frost is the first to recharge in 7 seconds (in unholy presence so 1sec gc) then you said:

rune tap(-1 blood rune for 10% health?, i thought you meant erw here to reset your runes + get you over 60 runic power for garg, cus rune tap just heals you not sure why you would do this)

then: ghoul frenzy(-1 unholy), Garry(-60 runic power, but you dont have enough runic power yet.. this is why i thought you meant erw earlier instead of rune tap)

but then you listed erw again before army, flop back to blood presence then it ps.

Can you elaborate?
Click to expand...

Surely there's a wowhead guide, a class discord and a weakaura that tell you exactly what buttons to press and in what order for optimal dps? Or is the only material you read GRRM books?
 
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Sylas

Sylas

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Hey wowhead what did caed mean when he said this?

404 not found

You know you cant win asshat 2 years in a row. What are you, getting an early start on next years campaign?
 
Caeden

Caeden

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Sylas said:
Hey wowhead what did caed mean when he said this?

404 not found

You know you cant win asshat 2 years in a row. What are you, getting an early start on next years campaign?
Click to expand...
Lol

Rune Tap is Rune Tap. I ghoul frenzy then gargoyle. Then I empower rune wep then army of the dead. The blood presence iT/PS. Diseases will be falling off or about to.

edit - do you have the right glyphs?
 
Sylas

Sylas

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i dont know man like I said i just started fucking with this build I dont know shit. I know I dont have the right gear, probably dont have the right glyphs. i'm old af bro its already hard enough as is, you know the adage its hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Its even harder when its old man muscle memory been playing DK a certain way for months and having to relearn the wheel. I just wanna make sure i'm following along and not missing anything.

i'm just trying to make sure I understand what you are saying by rune tap. I dont see how you have an available blood rune to use it, nor do i understand what you would gain by doing so during the opening rotation. Do you perhaps mean Blood Tap? that would activate one of your blood runes and turn it into a death rune to allow you to use ghoul frenzy.
 
Zog

Zog

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Sylas said:
Hey wowhead what did caed mean when he said this?

404 not found

You know you cant win asshat 2 years in a row. What are you, getting an early start on next years campaign?
Click to expand...
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RobXIII

RobXIII

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I'm in this tiny, filthy casual guild and we mostly only do 5 man stuff. Looking forward to the new challenge / raid loots with this change!

I've read a few of the unholy DK guides, but my group of RL friends is melee heavy, and want me to keep my weird unholy/frost hybrid for the added spell damage AND melee haste. I still do decent damage (3-5k depending), but my gear is not fantastic.
 
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