Yeah it's a zombie thing stitched together from all sorts of pieces. There are things that were implented in 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, etc that are obvious exploit fixes, and those will be in too. I don't think even they realize what a job getting it right will be. Half the populace will be screaming for exploit and bug fixes and the other half will be shouting them down in the name of preserving the broken shit for posterity's sake.
World of Warcraft: Classic
- Thread starter Tmac
- Start date
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Unless you had a fair amount of paladins, paladins had to buff 40people 1 by 1, that's a full minute just casting buffs constantly. Shamans having to drop 3 totems every 30secs without any targetting needed(positionning though) isn't really on the same scale at all. Paladins got a fuckton better once they added the 5man buffs though, at this point Shamans definitely had it worse. Forgot when that was though, late in vanilla iirc? Also I guess if you had many paladins, you could split the raid and only do say half of it, so that wasn't as bad then. But 40GCDs every 5mins is fucking crazy nonsense and retarded design.
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James
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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It was 4 totems every 30 seconds, so 8 GCDs a minute or 45 GCDs every 5 minutes. The whole gripe comes from a place where Paladins do not accept their intended role as a hybrid raid support, when literally everything Blizzard designed assumed otherwise -- that time spent buffing by Paladins was more effective in raids than Shaman buffs were, proven extensively with data and hindsight by this point, but Paladins still manage to complain about it.
I think it's a case of dick envy tbh, Shamans had Windfury.
I think it's a case of dick envy tbh, Shamans had Windfury.
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Hosix
All labs matter!
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Windfury and frost shock were so great. In early WoW pvp’ing in hillsbrad was good fun. Obviously rng and windfury....but when it went you could put a hurt on someone.
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Hunters soloing DM Tribute will fuck the economy over all by itself, it’s like triple the gold per hour of DM lashers or maradon plus fucktons of health and mana pots. There are other similar things that have a similar impact but just weren’t well known enough back in 2006 to really cause big problems but could on the Classic servers if they don’t get changed.
I think a lot of the #nochanges people are really thinking that it’s possible for a carbon copy 1.12 server to recreate the same feeling they had playing the game for the first time, and anybody who has played p99, Nost/Ely, or other similar projects knows better.
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Binks
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Managing blessings was just a poorly thought out mechanic that added nothing to the gameplay/enjoyability of playing the class. Outside of a well timed BoP, they were perfunctory and assumed. Applying them was easily 1 to 1.5 minutes (servers/lag/people) out of 5 of gameplay. Someone is out of range. Someone wants it on their pet. Your mod broke and. you're. doing. it. manually. all. night. long. More useful than shaman buffs without a doubt, but the price was the playing experience. Given that they required no thought, making them auras would have been more appropriate. That, or I might have actually enjoyed their application being meaningful (e.g. instead of raid wide, make it a super charged single target blessing/bestowment for one person on a long cooldown... like BoP).
Literally, I wouldn't play the class if given the opportunity, now, for anything less than 15 minute blessings. Nigh unkillable healing god be damned.
Literally, I wouldn't play the class if given the opportunity, now, for anything less than 15 minute blessings. Nigh unkillable healing god be damned.
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cabbitcabbit
NeoGaf Donator
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Both 5 minute blessing a whole raid and having to individually drop 4 totems every 2 minutes were both moronic designs.
There, 14 year old argument solved.
There, 14 year old argument solved.
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a c i d.f l y
ಠ_ಠ
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A super charged single target blessing would cause spiked aggro and wouldn't play nice with vanilla level aggro control. Probably would have been just as interesting if they were shorter term buffs and played like a true buffing class, similar to the Cleric in Aion. Casting buffs between small heals. It plays just like an indirect dps class in that it reduces boss kill time, and reduces heal time on healers, reducing mana requirements on both healers and dps. Spamming buffs is about the same as spamming rejuv or shields, just not as visibly measurable on a meter.
James
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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They're great design, though. In the grand scheme of things, both classes filled a very important niche for their factions. If players didn't feel impactful in their raids because they were hitting buff GCDs instead of heal GCDs, that's not on the design.
cabbitcabbit
NeoGaf Donator
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Not design then but implementation. It’s perfectly designed around smaller group content and lesser mobility but not very well when you have 39 others and you’re moving camp rapidly. I was our only pally that spec’d down into Kings and it was a significant (And not fun) portion of every other trash group. I was still high up on the meters which was probably mostly overhealing (because we had great mana efficiency with crit) but I wouldn’t say it was fun
Edit: looking back I guess it was fun because it was all still kind of new and yay purples.
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Leadsalad
Cis-XYite-Nationalist
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I don't get why anyone would willingly play a "hybrid" unless they knew they were going to be a heal bitch the entire game.
Same with playing a dps that used mana that wasn't a warlock or a hunter. Mana management was fucking homo as a Mage while the other classes just had infinite resources.
And why play a caster at all when melee dps just scaled so incredibly well and you were completely cock blocked by needing gear with +spell damage school on it. Int did fuck all except give you more mana to blow through in 30 seconds. Spirit was worthless because you didn't regen while casting, and it took like 4-5 seconds for regen to start after you stopped casting if I recall?
Same with playing a dps that used mana that wasn't a warlock or a hunter. Mana management was fucking homo as a Mage while the other classes just had infinite resources.
And why play a caster at all when melee dps just scaled so incredibly well and you were completely cock blocked by needing gear with +spell damage school on it. Int did fuck all except give you more mana to blow through in 30 seconds. Spirit was worthless because you didn't regen while casting, and it took like 4-5 seconds for regen to start after you stopped casting if I recall?
cabbitcabbit
NeoGaf Donator
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Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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To be honest I care far more for the old talent trees, the content and the level cap than I care about the utterly broken game mechanics and terrible design decisions they made in 2004.
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Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,978
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As for Paladin vs Shaman, you both are wrong here. Neither case is half as bad as it sounds. For Paladins, not everyone got every buff. You didn't BoM casters, you didn't BoW on non-mana classes, you didn't put BoS on classes without agro problems. The only paladin who really had to buff everyone was the idiot that specced BoK. And of course there's the people who didn't pay enough attention or didn't want to bother the paladin for the buff constantly.
As for Shaman, due to the nature of your totems, you didn't get tells from 40 different people non stop all night asking you to refresh their buff. You just dropped the totem, and if it wasn't there, you saw this yourself. I recall no "drop teh totem nao!" group messages riling up shamans.
yes, QoL was lacking, but if those guys had had it really that bad, they wouldn't have lasted for years in that class.
As for Shaman, due to the nature of your totems, you didn't get tells from 40 different people non stop all night asking you to refresh their buff. You just dropped the totem, and if it wasn't there, you saw this yourself. I recall no "drop teh totem nao!" group messages riling up shamans.
yes, QoL was lacking, but if those guys had had it really that bad, they wouldn't have lasted for years in that class.
dvoraen
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 515
- 181
I'm surprised the subject of forgetting buying reagents (for Fortitude, Infernals, Ritual of Doom, Refreshment tables, blahblahblah) hasn't really come up in this thread. Let's be honest, how many of you didn't remember to keep yourselves stocked?
And I haven't even gone into Classic soul shard management. AKA - inventory cancer. Literally. Took over all the damn bags. Even the Shard bags didn't mitigate it, though they did help, but it still came at the cost of losing a bag slot for carrying more crap around.
And I haven't even gone into Classic soul shard management. AKA - inventory cancer. Literally. Took over all the damn bags. Even the Shard bags didn't mitigate it, though they did help, but it still came at the cost of losing a bag slot for carrying more crap around.
I only ever had a shard problem very early in vanilla when only 1 lock could get a shard per mob, and when doing long PvP sessions. If you trained every lock to show up to raids with 20 shards to split the healthstone/summoning duties it wasn’t too bad.
As far as leveling goes, use a drain soul macro that auto deletes a slot in your shard bag after you drain soul and you don’t have to deal with filling up while grinding.
As far as leveling goes, use a drain soul macro that auto deletes a slot in your shard bag after you drain soul and you don’t have to deal with filling up while grinding.
Lunis
Blackwing Lair Raider
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a c i d.f l y
ಠ_ಠ
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a c i d.f l y
ಠ_ಠ
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/tell paladin kings
Paladin presses button that auto targets you and casts kings
Modern macro and scripting system is going to make things interesting. I just hope they can figure out a way to unvreak Decursive.