World of Warcraft: Current Year

Ukerric

Ukerric

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Dandai said:
I'm not sure if it's a technical problem on their end or they just don't agree that it should be displayed prior to binding to the character.
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It's a technical limitation. When you use a token, it does a "loot generation" action, so the generated piece of loot runs thru the entire system of "do I get a forge? do I get a socket? do I get a third stat? which one?", which is completely separate from the token itself. The token is merely the support that lets you loot.

So they can't display an ilvl for the token and have that ilvl be the generated item. Doesn't work.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

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Ukerric said:
So they can't display an ilvl for the token and have that ilvl be the generated item. Doesn't work.
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Are you kidding me? "Can't" is a crutch. Of course it "can", they simply have to run the randomization actions when the token is generated, and not when it's clicked. This isn't rocket science.
 
Kaige

Kaige

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Yeah, I mean if you can get the typical non-token loot drops with warforge/titanforge/random shit on kill, you would think the token ilvl would be doable easily. If anything, wouldn't it be less math for the system?
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

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Nah, same amount of math. They would just need to write some code to carry that math over to the item generated by clicking on the token. It's not like it would be hard, though. They just chose to do it the shitty way because RNG makes the world go 'round.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

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Alkorin said:
It's not like it would be hard, though.
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Yep. They would just have to completely re-engineer their item generation. 1h for an intern, I guess.

I mean, they just dropped their entire system for a 2nd relic trait because they could not make it work. But remaking the loot generation system? Peachy.

(adding special cases everywhere, like loot generation from token, is how you end up with potentially game-crippling bugs that require you to waste months fixing that)
 
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Sumdain x

Sumdain x

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fuck you Krosus, we had a wipe at 1.8% (1 dps dead since 2nd orb) and another at 2.6% (2 dps died during last add phase) hitting enrage both times. If we can keep all of our shitters alive till the end we got this. always next week i suppose...

i am so god damn tired of standing on his bridge i think we have 120-125 wipes at this point. Most due to random Dps felrushing, running, charging, shadowstepping, blinking, goblin glidering off the bridge or someone standing in felbeam.

on a Monk note i was noticing toward the end i was struggling for brews after the last bridge break i was only sitting at 10-15 seconds on ISB and didn't have enough gen to get purifies when i needed them so i swapped some gear raised my haste from 12% to 23% i had to take off the broken monk Karazhan neck so i lost about 25k dps but i was going overkill on brew generation, toward the end i was sitting at 50+ seconds of ISB so during the last break i can spend all of them on purify when the damage is getting tight. I know BrM's have commonly dismissed haste as a useless stat but in this situation in paid off, i think in the future i may try to find a middle ground between the 12% i was running with and the 23% which seems like a bit much.
 
Noodleface

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I thought I read that most agreed 14% haste with the 4 PC is the sweet spot. I usually run 14 and haven't had issues but I don't have the 4pc so who knows.

On the item generation thing. We're talking about a company that a) said the standard backpack can't be removed because it will break the game and b) had a legendary bad luck protection code in game that actually did the entire opposite and rewarded those who already got one.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

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Ukerric said:
Yep. They would just have to completely re-engineer their item generation. 1h for an intern, I guess.

I mean, they just dropped their entire system for a 2nd relic trait because they could not make it work. But remaking the loot generation system? Peachy.

(adding special cases everywhere, like loot generation from token, is how you end up with potentially game-crippling bugs that require you to waste months fixing that)
Click to expand...
Sorry, but what is this apologist garbage?

They already have a loot generation system that works just fine. Just make it do the ilvl generation for the token, same as any other item, which actually removes a special case from the system (as tokens are assigned a static ilvl now). An ilvl 910 titanforged token will generate an ilvl 910 titanforged item. This is, again, not rocket science. Why are you bound and determined to talk this down as impossible?

I haven't been a programmer for many years, but this is a very logical change, in my mind. Unless they're using a bunch of unqualified outsourced help for their back-end programming team, this should be a non-issue for them. This isn't even on the same level as a second relic trait, which sounds like a more major change akin to adding sockets to items that never had them.

Noodleface said:
On the item generation thing. We're talking about a company that a) said the standard backpack can't be removed because it will break the game and b) had a legendary bad luck protection code in game that actually did the entire opposite and rewarded those who already got one.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's... actually true. I got nothing.

Never mind, Ukerric, you win this round.
 
Dandai

Dandai

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Sumdain x said:
fuck you Krosus, we had a wipe at 1.8% (1 dps dead since 2nd orb) and another at 2.6% (2 dps died during last add phase) hitting enrage both times. If we can keep all of our shitters alive till the end we got this. always next week i suppose...

i am so god damn tired of standing on his bridge i think we have 120-125 wipes at this point. Most due to random Dps felrushing, running, charging, shadowstepping, blinking, goblin glidering off the bridge or someone standing in felbeam.

on a Monk note i was noticing toward the end i was struggling for brews after the last bridge break i was only sitting at 10-15 seconds on ISB and didn't have enough gen to get purifies when i needed them so i swapped some gear raised my haste from 12% to 23% i had to take off the broken monk Karazhan neck so i lost about 25k dps but i was going overkill on brew generation, toward the end i was sitting at 50+ seconds of ISB so during the last break i can spend all of them on purify when the damage is getting tight. I know BrM's have commonly dismissed haste as a useless stat but in this situation in paid off, i think in the future i may try to find a middle ground between the 12% i was running with and the 23% which seems like a bit much.
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Are you guys managing to spawn only 3-4 adds at a time? At 11 million hp per add, that's a lot of damage and time off the boss. Minimizing movement, only using 3 healers (if you're not), would also help.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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Alkorin said:
Sorry, but what is this apologist garbage?

They already have a loot generation system that works just fine. Just make it do the ilvl generation for the token, same as any other item, which actually removes a special case from the system (as tokens are assigned a static ilvl now). An ilvl 910 titanforged token will generate an ilvl 910 titanforged item. This is, again, not rocket science. Why are you bound and determined to talk this down as impossible?

I haven't been a programmer for many years, but this is a very logical change, in my mind. Unless they're using a bunch of unqualified outsourced help for their back-end programming team, this should be a non-issue for them. This isn't even on the same level as a second relic trait, which sounds like a more major change akin to adding sockets to items that never had them.



Yeah, that's... actually true. I got nothing.

Never mind, Ukerric, you win this round.
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To be fair they just recently started they took another look and decided it won't break the game

I don't know about other people but that doesn't instill much confidence in me.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

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I have a better idea: Remove warforge/titanforge altogether. Problem solved!
 
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Ukerric

Ukerric

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Alkorin said:
Sorry, but what is this apologist garbage?
Click to expand...
It's not an apologist garbage, I'm just telling you how it works.

At the moment, there is no link between the token you loot, and the item you get. All the token does, when clicked, is launch the loot generation function with a loot table that includes the 3 or 4 items that you can get, depending on your class. That's it.

They already have a loot generation system that works just fine.
Click to expand...
Yes, and that's what they use.
Just make it do the ilvl generation for the token, same as any other item, which actually removes a special case from the system (as tokens are assigned a static ilvl now).
Click to expand...
No problem with that part. You move the token from the category "static drop" to the category "piece of equipment".
An ilvl 910 titanforged token will generate an ilvl 910 titanforged item.
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And this is where the problem lies, because it can't be done with the current architecture of the token system. You need to recode the entire system because the token's stats have zero influence on the generation script. There's no input in a generation script for that.

You need to rewrite your loot generation, which is used for every single piece of loot, token or not, to run this new special case. Or copy and implement a new loot generator, which means that in 2 or 3 years, your loot generation will break down because you will change one of the generators, and not the other. Etc, etc.
This is, again, not rocket science. Why are you bound and determined to talk this down as impossible?
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It's not impossible. It's EXPENSIVE. More than you suspect.

You seem to think it's trivial to carry the ilvl of the token to the generated loot, and I'm telling you it's far from it, and it has severe repercussions on the entire loot system. It is something that they will only touch when it's necessary.
This isn't even on the same level as a second relic trait, which sounds like a more major change akin to adding sockets to items that never had them.
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Adding a second relic trait is trivial. The problem is that you're adding a second trait only for certain people which is where all the complication started to pile, until they had so much special cases to handle that they preferred to scrap the idea rather than write a steaming pile of garbage code full of holes.
 
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Kaige

Kaige

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Cursed items would be pretty tight. Random mind control, suddenly being rooted, accidental taunting, turning into random stuff, etc. would be hilarious.
 
alavaz

alavaz

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Ukerric said:
And this is where the problem lies, because it can't be done with the current architecture of the token system. You need to recode the entire system because the token's stats have zero influence on the generation script. There's no input in a generation script for that.

You need to rewrite your loot generation, which is used for every single piece of loot, token or not, to run this new special case. Or copy and implement a new loot generator, which means that in 2 or 3 years, your loot generation will break down because you will change one of the generators, and not the other. Etc, etc.

It's not impossible. It's EXPENSIVE. More than you suspect.

You seem to think it's trivial to carry the ilvl of the token to the generated loot, and I'm telling you it's far from it, and it has severe repercussions on the entire loot system. It is something that they will only touch when it's necessary.
Click to expand...

You work on that shit or is this just a big pile of guesses and speculation?
 
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