World of Warcraft: Current Year

Lodi

Lodi

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I don't know how much I think you NEED to do anything. Ultimately people still can choose what they want to do. The desire to be the most geared, mog'd, mounted, titled or whatever is up to the player. I get the desire for a game loop that makes sense to the brain, but I think that changes over time and that's why it's so hard to pin down.

EQ was getting stale even before its end, and now WoW is too. I think our claims about what it is or isn't are more about us and less about the game.
 
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xzi

xzi

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Honestly they should release tools to allow players to create their own (instanced, obviously) content, much like Neverwinter did. Pull a Valve and make your unpaid playerbase make far more, and better content than your paid employees can ever imagine.

The best of the absolute best content could even be put into the actual world with real rewards and you even solve content lulls.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
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xzi said:
Honestly they should release tools to allow players to create their own (instanced, obviously) content, much like Neverwinter did. Pull a Valve and make your unpaid playerbase make far more, and better content than your paid employees can ever imagine.

The best of the absolute best content could even be put into the actual world with real rewards and you even solve content lulls.
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I 100% support and agree with this, if Blizzard weren’t so far up their own asses the sheer sperg retards out there would be developing armor models, zones, content for them for free. Hell they don’t have the tools and numerous people already create armor models and shit for them you can find all over the net. If Blizzard was smart enough to exploit this untapped well of potential they could produce loads of shit, from battlegrounds to raids. Hell they could do a contest and simply hire the best of the best from their fans if they wanted. Truth is they are arrogant fools and the talent left long ago.

You guys can say it’s the same game but when you listen to the current developers vs old ones like Mark Kern there is a completely different target audience and experience they are aiming to create.
 
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TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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BoozeCube said:
I 100% support and agree with this, if Blizzard weren’t so far up their own asses the sheer sperg retards out there would be developing armor models, zones, content for them for free. Hell they don’t have the tools and numerous people already create armor models and shit for them you can find all over the net. If Blizzard was smart enough to exploit this untapped well of potential they could produce loads of shit, from battlegrounds to raids. Hell they could do a contest and simply hire the best of the best from their fans if they wanted. Truth is they are arrogant fools and the talent left long ago.

You guys can say it’s the same game but when you listen to the current developers vs old ones like Mark Kern there is a completely different target audience and experience they are aiming to create.
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Considering their level editors spawned multiple billion dollar genres that they failed to capitalize on....

Yeah probably a sore subject for them.
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Lodi said:
I don't know how much I think you NEED to do anything. Ultimately people still can choose what they want to do. The desire to be the most geared, mog'd, mounted, titled or whatever is up to the player. I get the desire for a game loop that makes sense to the brain, but I think that changes over time and that's why it's so hard to pin down.

EQ was getting stale even before its end, and now WoW is too. I think our claims about what it is or isn't are more about us and less about the game.
Click to expand...

Oh no doubt dude. To me, EQ did exactly two things very very right that WOW shitcanned as a concept. Because of their success these design choices have been baked into the genre for the past 15 years. To the detriment of us all. Those two things EQ got absolutely right and probably by mistake?
  1. Faction
    1. Play with who you want.
    2. Don't get restricted from who you play with because of the character you made.
    3. Ally with NPC's you want. You can be a friendly troll in Felwithe, if that was important enough for you to go out and do.
  2. You need other players to do stuff.
 
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Lodi

Lodi

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TJT said:
Oh no doubt dude. To me, EQ did exactly two things very very right that WOW shitcanned as a concept. Because of their success these design choices have been baked into the genre for the past 15 years. To the detriment of us all. Those two things EQ got absolutely right and probably by mistake?
  1. Faction
    1. Play with who you want.
    2. Don't get restricted from who you play with because of the character you made.
    3. Ally with NPC's you want. You can be a friendly troll in Felwithe, if that was important enough for you to go out and do.
  2. You need other players to do stuff.
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I think another thing they really fucked up on was how heavily they opted to instance content. I really dislike how much MMOs have become hub-worlds and WoW is the main culprit of this. The fact that we don't have sprawling dungeons where we can come and go and interact with a multitude of other users is a real loss. Instead we get funneled through scripted event after scripted event, and it becomes bland within a few months.
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
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When they said at blizzcon that the game is based around factions and that joining them together makes no sense for WARcraft I'm surprised it wasn't met with boos.

There's absolutely zero reason to have faction locks at this stage in the game. I should be able to raid with a group of dwarves on my tauren if I want to. Ironforge can still murder me if I come anywhere close but it's retarded that factions exist in 2019 for instanced PvE content.

Honestly the only reason at ALL to play alliance in this game is if you enjoy their aesthetic over horde. The raiding scene is pretty much dead and when I look for m+ on my druid there's like 15 groups, 10 of which are advertisements.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Lodi said:
I think another thing they really fucked up on was how heavily they opted to instance content. I really dislike how much MMOs have become hub-worlds and WoW is the main culprit of this. The fact that we don't have sprawling dungeons where we can come and go and interact with a multitude of other users is a real loss. Instead we get funneled through scripted event after scripted event, and it becomes bland within a few months.
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I don't necessarily mind not having to pack in as many little groups as possible into single farm spots like back in Lower Guk. But I'd rather dungeons be stuff like Blackrock Depths, where it's still a single contained instance but it's so big that you can do partial runs, with multiple routes...rather than just dungeon on rails some trash, boss, trash, boss, trash, final boss.
 
Lodi

Lodi

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Merrith said:
I don't necessarily mind not having to pack in as many little groups as possible into single farm spots like back in Lower Guk. But I'd rather dungeons be stuff like Blackrock Depths, where it's still a single contained instance but it's so big that you can do partial runs, with multiple routes...rather than just dungeon on rails some trash, boss, trash, boss, trash, final boss.
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You could alleviate this issue through Sharding. Sharding was one of the few things EQ2 actually did correctly.
 
Khane

Khane

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I've grown to really dislike instanced dungeons. They aren't fun. I don't care how much you try to tell me BRD was a great dungeon. It wasn't. It's not fun.

I would much rather have a choice between camping or crawling over running and resetting. The closest thing to this in WoW is the jaedenar barrow den which is actually a pretty good quest line and unique place (I don't know if any of the other barrow dens in the game go as deep or have the same setup.)
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Khane said:
I've grown to really dislike instanced dungeons. They aren't fun. I don't care how much you try to tell me BRD was a great dungeon. It wasn't. It's not fun.

I would much rather have a choice between camping or crawling over running and resetting. The closest thing to this in WoW is the jaedenar barrow den which is actually a pretty good quest line and unique place (I don't know if any of the other barrow dens in the game go as deep or have the same setup.)
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I'd like a mix of everything if I could get it, just unlikely that would ever be the case. I like the crawl, not as big a fan of camping just waiting on respawn. I don't mind the resetting after a single run through, each run a contained version. I loved BRD, but I get if it wasn't fun for all. Everyone has their own tastes. Still like it far better than picking a tunnel here or corner there in a dungeon while other groups grab their tunnels/corners. That shit wasn't fun, just tedious.
 
Khane

Khane

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How often did you ever really run into camping problems in Sebilis or Chardok if you were in a group capable of moving even moderately deep into those two dungeons? It wouldnt work in a game with WoW's population but it was much better than nothing but instanced dungeons.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Khane said:
How often did you ever really run into camping problems in Sebilis or Chardok if you were in a group capable of moving even moderately deep into those two dungeons? It wouldnt work in a game with WoW's population but it was much better than nothing but instanced dungeons.
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Well I was thinking more Lower Guk/Velk's stuff, but I get what you're saying. And agree that WoW's pop would be a completely different problem to deal with. I'd still like some instanced stuff, but like I said, I think it's either all or nothing for a design decision on that. Would be great if they could do it all, but no one will.
 
Khane

Khane

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Would be great to have to have both. Say an instanced BRD and an overworld, contested BRD. With all the same mobs, and even the same drops. The instance drops BoP items, and the overworld area drops sellable, BoE items (maybe even without level restrictions).

That will never happen though. Developers are comically against twinking low level alts. As if it ruins the integrity of the game or something.
 
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TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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BRD is amazing. A masterpiece of dungeon design and a true love letter to places like Old Sebilis, SolB and Lower Guk.

However, it also shows just how much a place like BRD fails when put into an instanced format. Nobody wants to run an instance for the 3 hours or whatever it took to get through BRD... over and over and over. The arena scripted event and that shit just gets tired as fuck.

But players absolutely would pop in to a non-instanced BRD, scurry on to the Emperor's room hangout and farm it hoping for drops though.
 
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Fucker

Fucker

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Khane said:
Would be great to have to have both. Say an instanced BRD and an overworld, contested BRD. With all the same mobs, and even the same drops. The instance drops BoP items, and the overworld area drops sellable, BoE items (maybe even without level restrictions).

That will never happen though. Developers are comically against twinking low level alts. As if it ruins the integrity of the game or something.
Click to expand...

Loot that is both tradable and disireable will be farmed 24/7/365 by the rang farms.
 
Fucker

Fucker

Log Wizard
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TJT said:
BRD is amazing. A masterpiece of dungeon design and a true love letter to places like Old Sebilis, SolB and Lower Guk.

However, it also shows just how much a place like BRD fails when put into an instanced format. Nobody wants to run an instance for the 3 hours or whatever it took to get through BRD... over and over and over. The arena scripted event and that shit just gets tired as fuck.

But players absolutely would pop in to a non-instanced BRD, scurry on to the Emperor's room hangout and farm it hoping for drops though.
Click to expand...

Would your average player of today even be capable of clearing BRD? I can't even get a good group to finish the 15th anniversary mount quest.
 
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TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Blame that on 10 years of McDungeons requiring no more thought than AE everything. Gotta knock out your daily dungeon finder ASAP bro!

I remember when people raged about Lokan in WOTLK and that boss had 1 mechanic. The game promotes people who are dumb and no nothing about how to play the game. Especially their class.
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Khane said:
I've grown to really dislike instanced dungeons. They aren't fun. I don't care how much you try to tell me BRD was a great dungeon. It wasn't. It's not fun.

I would much rather have a choice between camping or crawling over running and resetting. The closest thing to this in WoW is the jaedenar barrow den which is actually a pretty good quest line and unique place (I don't know if any of the other barrow dens in the game go as deep or have the same setup.)
Click to expand...

You mean like the troll fortress in the hinterlands also?
 
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Falstaff

Falstaff

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TJT said:
BRD is amazing. A masterpiece of dungeon design and a true love letter to places like Old Sebilis, SolB and Lower Guk.

However, it also shows just how much a place like BRD fails when put into an instanced format. Nobody wants to run an instance for the 3 hours or whatever it took to get through BRD... over and over and over. The arena scripted event and that shit just gets tired as fuck.

But players absolutely would pop in to a non-instanced BRD, scurry on to the Emperor's room hangout and farm it hoping for drops though.
Click to expand...


could you imagine the rage if onyxia was at the end of BRD?
 
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