World of Warcraft: Current Year

wolfshead

Molten Core Raider
18
6
Rob Pardo is the Ray "Billions Served" Kroc of the MMO world. He copied an almost unknown video game niche -- the MMORPG -- and made it accessible for the masses. To some, he's a hero for making the MMORPG genre profitable, for others he's a villain for transforming a hardcore, skill-based genre into a solo-friendly, dumbed-down experience for the lowest common denominator.
 

Namon

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,976
2,565
Yeah in true Blizzard style and fashion the reasoning he states just doesn't add up to reality. He's an executive over one of the largest and most successful companies in the industry. Seriously how much upward mobility is there at that point? Maybe whoever steps in, can actually guide their teams to get stuff out the door in an actual timely manner. If he was fired, I'd think it would be for that reason well before cash shop reason, since... well they pretty much do that already anyway.
 

Fratley_sl

shitlord
16
0
transforming a hardcore, skill-based genre into a solo-friendly, dumbed-down experience for the lowest common denominator.
How fucking stupid can you get? How did you even find this forum? Skill-based? Motherfucking skill-based? Logistically challenging, sure, but skill-based? Take your head out of your ass so you can shove something sharper up it, tool.
 

Needless

Toe Sucker
9,190
3,284
How fucking stupid can you get? How did you even find this forum? Skill-based? Motherfucking skill-based? Logistically challenging, sure, but skill-based? Take your head out of your ass so you can shove something sharper up it, tool.
b-b-b-b-b-b-but it takes skill to not stand in that void zone!

huehuehue
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,373
11,778
As a mage from vanilla who learned to spam Frostbolts ad infinitum and whack-a-mole Remove Lesser Curse... skill... LOL. (Disclaimer: unlike the other 99% of the internet I did actually LOL)
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,614
34,165
Guys you're misunderstanding. Look at all four of your hotbars, that's rightall43 skills you use from left to right, and tell me that MMOs are not skill based.
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,373
11,778
I'm looking at a vanilla screenshot back in the days of "skill and hardcore" and to reach four full hotbars I had three different ranks of frostbolt, two for fire blast, two for flamestrike, two for blizzard, two for arcane explosion (let's just say rogue stealth is bullshit, k), multiple mana gems, wand autoattack, food/water/night dragon's breath/whipper root tubers/potions, two more to summon food/water, tradeskill/racial shortcuts, and Detect Magic.
 

Ao-

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<WoW Guild Officer>
7,879
507
I'm looking at a vanilla screenshot back in the days of "skill and hardcore" and to reach four full hotbars I had three different ranks of frostbolt, two for fire blast, two for flamestrike, two for blizzard, two for arcane explosion (let's just say rogue stealth is bullshit, k), multiple mana gems, wand autoattack, food/water/night dragon's breath/whipper root tubers/potions, two more to summon food/water, tradeskill/racial shortcuts, and Detect Magic.
Awwww yeah, downranking!

I have no idea how that worked because I played a warrior.
 

Neph_sl

shitlord
1,635
0
I saw that and wondered why they had their cinematics team working on that while the end of D3:RoS didn't have a cinematic. It was a fine short, just weirdly timed. Also, it's been over a year; they should know what a pandaren is by now
 

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,312
9,421
Rob Pardo, Alex Afrasiabi and Jeffrey Kaplan were all offered amazing positions, to which I think were based off of their feats in EverQuest. I feel like Rob Pardo had a great influence on WoW, and I like most of the stuff he had a hand in. I couldnt imagine that he didnt enjoy the majority of his time spent at Blizzard. Though, Im sure that his experience there is going to lend itself to an easy transition no matter where he goes. Hopefully, Blizzard has picked up someone that has as great, or better, an influence upon WoW to take his place.


Ha, never saw that before.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,072
2,267
When I played priest during vanilla, I didn't need a full bar of heals. I only needed Heal rank2(or lesser heal rank2?). There was never a need to heal for more, and it was by far the most efficient heal.

Still there was some skill involved for some roles on some fights. Not much more or less than I assume in current wow though. Picking up adds, moving shit where it has to be tanked, timing your zerker rage for fears(unless you were alliance), it's not overly complicated stuff but it still needed to be done well and at the right time, which is how wow works.

I mean a lot of people swear by Dark Souls' difficulty and shit, but ultimately Dark Souls is a game of knowledge where once you've mastered patterns the only thing that's left is doing what you're supposed to which is mostly dodging/block hits until you have an opening, hitting once or twice, then going back to defensive mode and repeating this over and over. If you've played Dark Souls multiple times, chances are you found the game very easy on the 2nd playthrough even if you picked a weird character style and even more so if you played something strong. My greatsword playthrough of Dark Souls was my 3rd or 4th and I only died a few times the entire time because of how easy everything seemed when I knew exactly what was going to happen.

WoW uses the same systems, once you've learned a fight it's just a matter of executing your own role which is simple enough, one fuckup often leads to death(and in wow often to a wipe, but not necessarily, depends on the death). WoW has the added layer of having multiple people performing the same fight increasing the chances of fuckups. I don't think the challenging wow stuff was much easier than Dark Souls was, there was a lot of randomness in patterns and even with the DBM calls and shit, it only told you that something was about to happen, reacting appropriately was still a split decision.

It isn't the difficulty and skill requirement of playing a twitch FPS which needs much higher reflexes and precision, or playing SC2 which requires much more intensive micro and macro, but I think Dark Souls and WoW(and modern mmos) are fairly similar in playstyle, minus the multiplayer aspect. I think for many people who played Dark Souls a decent bunch then player Dark Souls 2, it's fairly apparent that Dark Souls was only truly hard because you didn't know what to expect. In DS2, a lot of the fights being similar to DS1, the game appeared to be much much easier than the original, because you already knew the patterns and how to execute. I feel that's also what happened with later wow, people got used to raiding and while the encounters had new mechanics, at the end of the day it was more of the same skills being used and if you had been raiding for years every week, adapting to a few new mechanics wasn't hard enough which led people to feeling like raiding became easier, when really it became harder over time(at least in hard modes once they started splitting). If you look at it objectively though, hard mode pandaria is probably 10times harder than anything ever made during vanilla and BC, other than broken content.

Anyway saying wow doesn't take any skill is either hyperbole or simply stupidity. Everything takes some amount of skill to varying degrees. You might say it doesn't take enough skill to challenge you and that might be true, but for the most part it requires a decent amount of skill, with the main issue is that wether or not you have enough skill doesn't matter in your success or not entirely, since you also need many other people to have the same amount of skill and all of you need to perform perfectly at the right time. But I'd say it takes more personnal skill than a lot of other games because it uses similar concept as Dark Souls, you have very little time to react to pseudo random events(you know something is coming, and it might be one of two or 3 things) and reacting badly almost always results in an instant loss. The skill requirement is mostly applied through the extreme result of failling to do simple tasks, rather than executing complex tasks.
 

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,312
9,421
The hard part of Raiding has always been getting everyone thats "important" to work together in a flawless to almost flawless fashion to beat content. You had your huge raid teams in EQ, but lets face it, if the A group of that team had the DPS output of the entire raid team - shit would have been done with minimal numbers in EQ. WoW has increased personal difficulty to a much higher level, but at the end of the day - you're still depending on your A group to perform.
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,453
1,655
The hard part of Raiding has always been getting everyone thats "important" to work together in a flawless to almost flawless fashion to beat content. You had your huge raid teams in EQ, but lets face it, if the A group of that team had the DPS output of the entire raid team - shit would have been done with minimal numbers in EQ. WoW has increased personal difficulty to a much higher level, but at the end of the day - you're still depending on your A group to perform.
Heroic 10m is all A team or bust - You cant really carry in heroic 10m as well as heroic 25m. When i was still raiding and we had just 1 or 2 fuckin up repeatedly they had to get the axe. I honestly think heroic raiding is much more challenging than i initially gave it credit for before i came back in MoP. However while i say that its also totally not fun in any sense of the word and the slow content updates make it even less tolerable. Alot of guilds have the content on farm and nothing at all to look forward to until xpac and its kind of sad.
 

xmod2_sl

shitlord
37
0
I think he meant EQ was hardcore/skill-based and that vanilla wow onwards was a solo friendly, dumbed-down blah blah blah.
 

Ao-

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<WoW Guild Officer>
7,879
507
Did something change with flex lockouts? I did the first two yesterday and the third today, but I'm not showing as being locked out of the third (even though we just cleared thok).
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,907
4,483
When I played priest during vanilla, I didn't need a full bar of heals. I only needed Heal rank2(or lesser heal rank2?). There was never a need to heal for more, and it was by far the most efficient heal.

Still there was some skill involved for some roles on some fights. Not much more or less than I assume in current wow though. Picking up adds, moving shit where it has to be tanked, timing your zerker rage for fears(unless you were alliance), it's not overly complicated stuff but it still needed to be done well and at the right time, which is how wow works.

I mean a lot of people swear by Dark Souls' difficulty and shit, but ultimately Dark Souls is a game of knowledge where once you've mastered patterns the only thing that's left is doing what you're supposed to which is mostly dodging/block hits until you have an opening, hitting once or twice, then going back to defensive mode and repeating this over and over. If you've played Dark Souls multiple times, chances are you found the game very easy on the 2nd playthrough even if you picked a weird character style and even more so if you played something strong. My greatsword playthrough of Dark Souls was my 3rd or 4th and I only died a few times the entire time because of how easy everything seemed when I knew exactly what was going to happen.

WoW uses the same systems, once you've learned a fight it's just a matter of executing your own role which is simple enough, one fuckup often leads to death(and in wow often to a wipe, but not necessarily, depends on the death). WoW has the added layer of having multiple people performing the same fight increasing the chances of fuckups. I don't think the challenging wow stuff was much easier than Dark Souls was, there was a lot of randomness in patterns and even with the DBM calls and shit, it only told you that something was about to happen, reacting appropriately was still a split decision.

It isn't the difficulty and skill requirement of playing a twitch FPS which needs much higher reflexes and precision, or playing SC2 which requires much more intensive micro and macro, but I think Dark Souls and WoW(and modern mmos) are fairly similar in playstyle, minus the multiplayer aspect. I think for many people who played Dark Souls a decent bunch then player Dark Souls 2, it's fairly apparent that Dark Souls was only truly hard because you didn't know what to expect. In DS2, a lot of the fights being similar to DS1, the game appeared to be much much easier than the original, because you already knew the patterns and how to execute. I feel that's also what happened with later wow, people got used to raiding and while the encounters had new mechanics, at the end of the day it was more of the same skills being used and if you had been raiding for years every week, adapting to a few new mechanics wasn't hard enough which led people to feeling like raiding became easier, when really it became harder over time(at least in hard modes once they started splitting). If you look at it objectively though, hard mode pandaria is probably 10times harder than anything ever made during vanilla and BC, other than broken content.

Anyway saying wow doesn't take any skill is either hyperbole or simply stupidity. Everything takes some amount of skill to varying degrees. You might say it doesn't take enough skill to challenge you and that might be true, but for the most part it requires a decent amount of skill, with the main issue is that wether or not you have enough skill doesn't matter in your success or not entirely, since you also need many other people to have the same amount of skill and all of you need to perform perfectly at the right time. But I'd say it takes more personnal skill than a lot of other games because it uses similar concept as Dark Souls, you have very little time to react to pseudo random events(you know something is coming, and it might be one of two or 3 things) and reacting badly almost always results in an instant loss. The skill requirement is mostly applied through the extreme result of failling to do simple tasks, rather than executing complex tasks.
Quoting this because people like Dumar, kudos, and the others in this thread like them need to read this more than once and let it sink in.