World of Warcraft: Current Year

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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Juvarisx_sl said:
You said the game was harder in Vanilla, it was not.
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I said the game was more challenging in vanilla and TBC. What percentage of the player base cleared original Naxx before TBC was released? Not very many. My bet is the percentage of players who defeat mythic Archimonde by the time the next expansion is released will be higher than the percentage who cleared original Naxx.

Heroic dungeons in TBC were fun as shit because they were hard. Can you say the same about heroic dungeons in WoD?
 
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Felmega_sl

shitlord
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1
How powerful should Demon Hunters be? I could see a lot of players being upset if they are weak. Alternatively, everyone who doesnt reroll will not appreciate being destroyed by every DH that comes along, and there will be many.

Its a tough spot to be in for the devs. I could see Paladins being a go-to class for being the DH counter simply on a lore basis but who knows.
 
Xexx

Xexx

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Rescorla_sl said:
I said the game was more challenging in vanilla and TBC. What percentage of the player base cleared original Naxx before TBC was released? Not very many. My bet is the percentage of players who defeat mythic Archimonde by the time the next expansion is released will be higher than the percentage who cleared original Naxx.

Heroic dungeons in TBC were fun as shit because they were hard. Can you say the same about heroic dungeons in WoD?
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Challenge mode is a challenge and mythic can be as well tbh - I cleared everything in vanilla and i personally skipped TBC bc i lost interest. I am one of the weird few who missed 40man raids until i realize how many shit players you inevitably ended up carrying in the process.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Kreugen_sl said:
I ran out of repair money in early AQ, because I hated doing all the stupid "work" shit required to acquire gold. I only enjoyed dungeons and raiding. I liked battlegrounds a bit. I couldn't give less of a fuck about everything else - I didn't rep grind, or do holiday event fluff, or farm for rare vanity items, or work on achievements, or do challenge mode dungeons, or the brawler's guild, or pet battles, and so on. I do the parts I like and largely ignore the rest.

Which is why I ask Rescola to admit if he EVER enjoyed being casual in WoW. Because it took all the way until the introduction of flex and cross realm raiding before I could enjoy it semi-casually. If I didn't have the time to play I quit, I didn't cry about it and blame the game. (it was my own lazy unwillingness to just move to an EST-friendly guild. I like sleep better than WoW, sorry FoH)

He said he ran LFR and quit. He made no mention of trying to pug normal/heroic. Raids are available all day long.
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I'll answer your question here. I enjoyed WoW the most when I was a hardcore raider back in vanilla and TBC. Back then, when you weren't raiding the group heroic dungeons were fun and challenging. Kids are older now so I don't have the time to commit to hardcore raiding anymore. My free time is pretty much devoted to youth sports. I'm perfectly fine with that and in no way am I jealous of those who can play more than I do. I could pug a normal/heroic raid but what is the point of that if you aren't raiding with your guildmates/friends?
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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There are plenty of challenges in WoW if you want. They really fucked the casual players who aren't looking for a challenge. There just isn't a lot for them to do and the content patches have been substandard. The garrison thing was fun at first but turned into a huge fucking chore for people with alts. My wife and daughter are hard core raiders so they are really enjoying this XPAC. I have other friends who were more casual and got bored very quickly. At no point in time did either group tell me that the game was dumbed down or too easy.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Dandai_sl said:
Maybe the breakdown is our definitions of casual? I'm 13/13H 1/13M in HFC and raid 6-9 hours/week (3 hours optional farm night, 6 hours progression). I think this is a lot of progression for such a casual schedule.
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You raid 6-9 hours per week while I am lucky to even be online that much time.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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Rescorla_sl said:
I'll answer your question here. I enjoyed WoW the most when I was a hardcore raider back in vanilla and TBC. Back then, when you weren't raiding the group heroic dungeons were fun and challenging. Kids are older now so I don't have the time to commit to hardcore raiding anymore.
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So it is you who has changed, not the game. The game is not dumbed down, you just don't have to play time to actually experience it. I'm glad we were able to steer you towards that revelation.

Also, less than one tenth of one percent of recently active raid guilds have cleared all content at the two month mark. Of those 22, only ONE is a US guild. Said guild raids five hours a night, six nights a week. At no time did we ever raid that much.

Also take into account Naxx was only live for around six months before BC started. Sadly, I don't believe there's any way to find such stats from back then.
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
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Rescorla_sl said:
I said the game was more challenging in vanilla and TBC. What percentage of the player base cleared original Naxx before TBC was released? Not very many. My bet is the percentage of players who defeat mythic Archimonde by the time the next expansion is released will be higher than the percentage who cleared original Naxx.
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Not very many, but considering the much smaller population and the lack of guides whatsoever for Naxx, I'm surprised that many guilds got that far. We never beat Naxx but we did down 4hm a few times and got Saph pretty low, and I'd say we were hardcore raiders at the time. But then people actually learned how to play.

Naxx in WOTLK didn't changeat allfrom Vanilla and a LOT of people downed it. I think it was just a natural progression of people getting better at the game and Blizz being forced to step their raid game up.
 
cabbitcabbit

cabbitcabbit

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xzi_sl said:
Naxx in WOTLK didn't changeat allfrom Vanilla and a LOT of people downed it.
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4 horsemen definitely changed a lot but I guess not needing 8 tanks had a lot to do with that. I don't think it has much do to with the population in general getting better. It's just easier to manage smaller numbers, and easier to weed out the bads when you're not just filling space. Tighter control allows blizz to design tighter encounters.
 
Blitz

Blitz

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I believe the game is dumbed down in many ways, I mean shit look at the garrisons for an absolute total "dumbing" down of the game.

I certainly won't claim the actual act of boss fights back in the day were harder than now, but the game in Vanilla was overall more "challenging" due to the time & effort needed. I mean most people seem to agree, the game was just a better representation of RPGs/MMOs awhile back.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
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This debate comes up fairly often here, the truth is World of Warcraft has challenging content and over the last 10 years fights and rotations have varied and in some cases become more complex. If this is a good thing or not I don't know. There is a vast difference between building a character, getting atunements, flags, keys, getting resist gear, flasks, and buffs, then fielding 40 bodies to overcome a semi challenging fight vs. 20 solid players who can maintain their skills and rotations with a high degree of accuracy while reacting to the encounters mechanics. Both can be difficult but they are two vastly different types of difficult.

For me I actually prefer the former because when I play an MMORPG I would rather be able to bring friends and other people. We all remember the shit players or housewive types in EQ and in WoW we used to be able to bring some of these people along, and while they could be annoying they weren't a complete fucking burden, but as the game progressed I found myself not wanting to at times play with less skilled friends because they couldn't play up to par with heroics or bleeding edge content. To me MMORPG's should be more akin to Dungeons and Dragons style and social interaction is important to fully realize the game. That's the biggest difference between WOW then and now.

At some point it went from a world to a Xbox live queue, what to clear a dungeon? Hit the dungeon button and we will slap you into a list with 4 random assholes. Want to raid? Hit the raid button and we will slap you into a list with 19 random assholes. PvP? Hit the PvP button and we will slap you into a list with 9 random assholes.

Also I feel there is a lot of the game lost with different versions of the same fight. Fight EndBadguy_01 on this mode get a red weapon drop, Fight EndBadguy_01 on this mode get a blue weapon drop. Whoopty Fuckin' Doo. I can only imagine it being more lame with no weapon drops and everyone wearing the same weapon in the new expansion, who knows if the stat increases will even change the skin color with the new relic slot upgrades. Before I get to off topic with ranting about bullshit the point is this genre of game is really at it's best when social interaction and the world, adventure, story is the driving focus as you can and should play with people you enjoy playing with, but when everything is so tightly tuned and you are forced to pick and choose skill many times playing with people who you might not like but need to get by. I envy the people who manage to find both highly skilled players and people who are fun to be around, because we all know there are a ton more little timmy shitbags than decent players.
 
Blitz

Blitz

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Agree with just about everything said above. Quality of life additions in MMOs can be nice, but there is a super fine line before it takes away from the game.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
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Foggy_sl said:
Are you concerned whether changing spec will move all the stats and runes on your artifact to the artifact of the second spec?
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It won't. They already said you'd loot (and probably craft and quest) "relics" that you slot in the weapon, which means it's basically similar to jewelcrafting, and you've got 3 different "color" with 4 slots for your ilvl (blue) /main stat (red) /1st secondary/2nd secondary (yellows). The only difference will be that you'll get those relics from different ways not just from the jewelcrafters, and your artefact does not have base stats at all (but it will probably come with at least ilvl and almost certainly main stat slots filled with a min ilvl). The "yellows" will be loot-independent, the "red" might depend on your loot spec, and I think the "blue" is going to be general across all artefacts; I know they like personal loot, but having 36 different "main relics" to seed your raid with for normal guilds would be absolutely insane.

Enjoy rolling for that mastery upgrade against all the other classes for which mastery is one of their two best stats
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Regarding Artefact power, they can pretty much go any of three ways:

- You earn Artefact power for the weapon you wield; you need to swap specs (or at least loot specs) to level the other (doubtful)
- You earn Artefact power for yourself; you must spend it on one weapon or the other (probably)
- You earn Artefact power and that determines how many nodes you can unlock on your two weapons (probably not)
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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This whole argument is really stupid. Resc painted himself into a corner and then got defensive when people pointed it out. A lot of people would agree they had more fun in vanilla. Raiding is as difficult now as it has ever been. LFR welfare epics are dumb, but so is making a determination on the overall difficulty of the current game based on just them. WOD has sucked all around outside of the raids (talking Mythic here).

There are points on both sides.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
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WOD makes no difference to me because I didn't do any of that extraneous stuff anyway. I'm glad I'm not forced to run through dungeons that I outrageously overgear a few times a week. I'm glad I have no reason to set foot in LFR when coming off of the prior tiers mythic. I'm glad I don't feel forced to log into the game daily, and I can spend that time on other games.
 
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Carl_sl

shitlord
634
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BC and Wotlk were both more fun than vanilla by far, Raids were good, heroics were good, token system for loot was better than anything they've come up with to replace it. "Welfare epics" took multiple raids worth of badges to acquire.

Vanilla on the other hand had more... interesting things in it. Large dungeons that took a while to clear, the mechanics in them were boring but the zone design was cool. Legendary weapon quest lines with overland bosses that you only reallly saw if you were working that questline, rogues having a poison making profession. Just a ton of rpg elements that were cool but didn't necessarily translate to the kind of fun that you had in BC and Wotlk.
 
Aaron

Aaron

Goonsquad Officer
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Carl_sl said:
BC and Wotlk were both more fun than vanilla by far, Raids were good, heroics were good, token system for loot was better than anything they've come up with to replace it. "Welfare epics" took multiple raids worth of badges to acquire.

Vanilla on the other hand had more... interesting things in it. Large dungeons that took a while to clear, the mechanics in them were boring but the zone design was cool. Legendary weapon quest lines with overland bosses that you only reallly saw if you were working that questline, rogues having a poison making profession. Just a ton of rpg elements that were cool but didn't necessarily translate to the kind of fun that you had in BC and Wotlk.
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Agree with this. While BC and later WotLK were the pinnacle of my WoW life I also did miss the strangeness of Vanilla, though somethings were a bit shit. The huge dungeons were amazing to do with a good group, but a nightmare with a bad one.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
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Utnayan_sl said:
Don't mind Rescorla - he is our new resident retard who doesn't know jack shit about.... anything really.
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I was wondering when you were going to chime in. Several of the idiots attacking me last night were copying your playbook. Make shit up, resort to strawmans, and purposely misquoting me. What's funny is I'm not saying anything different than what numerous other people are saying.
 
Gorehack

Gorehack

Lord Nagafen Raider
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"Tanaan is a big and awesome zone with a lot of cool spawns. It has generated a lot of engagement with the player base. There are a lot of players doing it every day. The team wants to continue to evolve the endgame world content model though, as they aren't happy with the combination of daily quests and bonus objectives. They are two pieces of the puzzle, but larger ongoing story development is also important, similar to what was in Patch 5.1. Other mechanics to add more replayability and variation would also be good additions and there are plans for Legion to make better endgame world content."

Because we have to you fucking assholes. Jesus fucking christ these cocksuckers really think Tanaan is just a super awesome content zone?
 
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