World of Warcraft: Current Year

Leon

Leon

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'removed' for good, but corruption is basically another flavor of the same shit sandwich.

A few weeks after mythic opened is vague. Also you can be a cutting edge farming guild and be a 2 days a week guild.

She was boss number 4 and you got to her on week 1 cause the 3 previous bosses were super easy in mythic. She was a brick wall. If they got her 3 or 4 weeks in then yes they farmed a decent amount of benthic, probably not every member did but the 'carries' of the guild most def had 2 or 3 pieces of fully upgraded benthic.
She then became very easy once you were able to 2 phase her instead of 3 phase her, which came with more gear / more benthics om the subsequent weeks.

A lot of of the more casual guilds did not kill ashvane until 7 or 8 weeks in. For some guilds it was the end of the line in mythic for this tier.
 
Jox

Jox

Molten Core Raider
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Titanforging would be fine if it capped at the base ilvl of the next tier, and then mythic could get up to ilvl cap. I would say close to 100% of the people who didn't like titanforging have thought of that solution and thought it would be acceptable.
 
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Noodleface

Noodleface

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I got cutting edge on Argus and we were an awful guild. I hope that's not the measuring stick

We're now entering the phase of the discussion where mythic difficulty is brought up again.

Let's save some time. Khane thinks it's overturned, I think it's fine. Not gonna argue that point again
 
Khane

Khane

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The only reason I come to this thread anymore is to commiserate about the state of the game and how what used to be fun, no longer is. I haven't enjoyed raiding in WoW for a long time. The last raid tier I actually enjoyed was Nighthold and that had more to do with my character than the raid. I played a Frost DK with BiS legendaries and during that period of time Frost DK was OP and super fun to play (especially if you had the ring, which I did).

Some people seem to enjoy it but the expectation that a new raid tier is going to take multiple months to clear doesn't sit with me. Playing in my 3 hour/3 day a week guild became a source of contempt for me. I don't want to devote 9 hours a week for 10+ weeks. I just don't. A lot of that has to do with the type of challenge Mythic raiding presents and not that it's just a challenge in and of itself. The addon API is the biggest culprit in this in my opinion and developers trying to design fights to be difficult in spite of the LUA API. This means that addons become necessary to make meaningful progress before you can just outgear and steamroll. But inevitably there are the people who think addons are a crutch and they don't need them to be successful. And they drag the entire rest of the guild down and the difference in contribution between your carry players and the players being carried is so significant it adds weeks to your clear times. There is nothing worse than setting up your addons so you can perform and trying to help others do the same and they just refuse. And then looking at the logs and seeing these asshats who pretend they don't need em green or grey parsing and taking twice as much damage.

The power of addons and the needless complexity devs create in fights as a result makes raiding kind of a shitty prospect to begin with. I understand why people don't want to bother with addons, but they are necessary if you want to be successful and it creates strife between guild members by itself and kills the fun for both parties. There has been so much turmoil and turnover in every single Mythic raiding guild I've been in since Legion that it makes me wonder why anyone even bothers anymore.
 
Khane

Khane

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Noodleface said:
I got cutting edge on Argus and we were an awful guild. I hope that's not the measuring stick

We're now entering the phase of the discussion where mythic difficulty is brought up again.

Let's save some time. Khane thinks it's overturned, I think it's fine. Not gonna argue that point again
Click to expand...

Way to edit after I posted. What a turd.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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Khane said:
The only reason I come to this thread anymore is to commiserate about the state of the game and how what used to be fun, no longer is. I haven't enjoyed raiding in WoW for a long time. The last raid tier I actually enjoyed was Nighthold and that had more to do with my character than the raid. I played a Frost DK with BiS legendaries and during that period of time Frost DK was OP and super fun to play (especially if you had the ring, which I did).

Some people seem to enjoy it but the expectation that a new raid tier is going to take multiple months to clear doesn't sit with me. Playing in my 3 hour/3 day a week guild became a source of contempt for me. I don't want to devote 9 hours a week for 10+ weeks. I just don't. A lot of that has to do with the type of challenge Mythic raiding presents and not that it's just a challenge in and of itself. The addon API is the biggest culprit in this in my opinion and developers trying to design fights to be difficult in spite of the LUA API. This means that addons become necessary to make meaningful progress before you can just outgear and steamroll. But inevitably there are the people who think addons are a crutch and they don't need them to be successful. And they drag the entire rest of the guild down and the difference in contribution between your carry players and the players being carried is so significant it adds weeks to your clear times. There is nothing worse than setting up your addons so you can perform and trying to help others do the same and they just refuse. And then looking at the logs and seeing these asshats who pretend they don't need em green or grey parsing and taking twice as much damage.

The power of addons and the needless complexity devs create in fights as a result makes raiding kind of a shitty prospect to begin with. I understand why people don't want to bother with addons, but they are necessary if you want to be successful and it creates strife between guild members by itself and kills the fun for both parties. There has been so much turmoil and turnover in every single Mythic raiding guild I've been in since Legion that it makes me wonder why anyone even bothers anymore.
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It's going to sound stupid, but I think you just didn't find the right guild. The one I joined after FOH had no turnover, and while we weren't high calibre, stuff always got done. There was virtually no turnover except this couple (SURPRISE) that had major problems with everyone. Of course, the flipside of that is how often do you find a guild like that.

Fires of Heaven 2 incoming in shadowlands amirite, who's with me
 
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Khane

Khane

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Noodleface said:
It's going to sound stupid, but I think you just didn't find the right guild. The one I joined after FOH had no turnover, and while we weren't high calibre, stuff always got done. There was virtually no turnover except this couple (SURPRISE) that had major problems with everyone. Of course, the flipside of that is how often do you find a guild like that.

Fires of Heaven 2 incoming in shadowlands amirite, who's with me
Click to expand...

Didn't you join that guild when they were progressing on Aggramar and then stop playing completely at the beginning of Uldir? You sure spent a lot of time progressing with them to see how raiding affected turnover... In fact, you are the turnover.
 
xzi

xzi

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tbf everyone I know quit after ghuun died at the very least until next tier, cause the game was really bad on launch

even foh quit completely
 
Zhro

Zhro

Silver Knight of the Realm
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That is true about the addons really needing to be required when you are doing mythic progress. I haven't had experience with people who just out right refused or thought they didn't need either an addon or WeakAura to progress on a fight as that shit would hold you back. But than again my context of actual hard mythic progression was during Legion where, if the guild didn't implode, we would've been top 40 US if we killed mythic Argus. Of course there was turnover, but that was more akin to being bad at mechanics and really just fucking up, but not from someone just refusing to use addons, because at around that level people understood that you needed X or Y to actually succeed.

Mythic Fallen Avatar was one of those fights where having the phase 1 soak order rotation WeakAura was mandatory (if you were soaking) as well as during phase 2 where you had the other soak WeakAura that told everyone to either use a personal CD (cloak of shadows/ams/etc) and whom to stack on, so the person(s) targeted didn't die. Shit even the Mistress soak WeakAura that distributed everyone evenly to soak the hydra shots was something that was needed.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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Khane said:
Didn't you join that guild when they were progressing on Aggramar and then stop playing completely at the beginning of Uldir? You sure spent a lot of time progressing with them to see how raiding affected turnover... In fact, you are the turnover.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am the worst type of person. I've followed them (still talk to them daily) though and watch most of their raids. I'm also close friends with their recruiter. I think a big point was a lot of them had been together for years in other games.
 
Khane

Khane

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xzi said:
tbf everyone I know quit after ghuun died at the very least until next tier, cause the game was really bad on launch

even foh quit completely
Click to expand...

Ugh.. Ghuun. What a terrible fight.
 
Neranja

Neranja

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xzi said:
I honestly still like Ion, I feel like he's shackled by some oversight cause the dude clearly loves the game and I do feel like it shows in this video.
Click to expand...
I think he really cares, but only from his narrow perspective - which is high end raiding. This however ignores around 90% of the playerbase that doesn't raid. But Ion isn't the single developer, he's just the public lightning rod. Maybe there just isn't anyone left that plays the game casually. They either are hardcore raiders or don't play at all.

Also, an idea I just had: the focus on high end raiding as an event/competiton has one big problem: When you can watch people play at a level, why would you want to play the game yourself?
 
Rime

Rime

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90%? It is more like 1% for people who do Mythic at all, like .25% who do it before catchup mechanics.
 
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Noodleface

Noodleface

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Neranja said:
I think he really cares, but only from his narrow perspective - which is high end raiding. This however ignores around 90% of the playerbase that doesn't raid. But Ion isn't the single developer, he's just the public lightning rod. Maybe there just isn't anyone left that plays the game casually. They either are hardcore raiders or don't play at all.

Also, an idea I just had: the focus on high end raiding as an event/competiton has one big problem: When you can watch people play at a level, why would you want to play the game yourself?
Click to expand...
Uh

Thats like every game ever. Why do people still play csgo when they can just watch pro events??
 
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