RobXIII
Urinal Cake Consumption King
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Remember when EQ2 had shared exp debt? You'd get the one idiot dying enroute to where your group was, and it wasted 15 minutes of exp time for ya. Glad THAT was short lived!
World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
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Remember when EQ2 had shared exp debt? You'd get the one idiot dying enroute to where your group was, and it wasted 15 minutes of exp time for ya. Glad THAT was short lived!
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Yes, that's why I wrote it in my original post: "Bad idea, because it made the players resent each other."
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Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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And everyone know this. It was the most stupid idea in game design - penalize people for things outside of their control.
Yet the end point is WoW, where death does not matter, and no one bats an eye to dying 100 times to a boss, which means the boss HAS to require you to die 100 times in order to be hard.
There's a pretty big continuum between bodyloss and level loss at one end of the spectrum and 2mn corpse runs for about two mob's loot cash penalty. Which is where every games is now located at. My proposition even has the idea that, if you die so that your group wins, you lost nothing (and you even get your chance at loot!). You only start losing if you take inconsidered risks - but you are never placed in a position where you're left asking yourself "do I keep playing this stupid game?".
(the shared xp debt was a stupidity beyond measure - but the concept of XP debt was good)
Guess I'm on an island but I loved EQ2 back in the shared debt, corpse shard recovery days. I thought it fostered a sense of "us against the world" even with randos in pickup groups.
Cybsled
Avatar of War Slayer
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EQ1's "zomg lose corpse forever" fear wasn't very long lived. It didn't take long for them to add mechanics that more or less made it much lower risk: Planes popping empty, summon corpse, people figuring out safe spots and corpse dragging/vox res stick recharges.
I recall like maybe 1 or 2 guys who lost corpses/or almost lost corpses on Cazic Thule: One was under Nagafen's balls before anyone was able to kill Nag, and another died in Plane of Fear 2.0 when they really overtuned it after the original softball version and no one knew about the safe spot yet. Although even with them, I'm half convinced we ended up retrieving them before the timer expired.
I was the Kedge Master. The geometry was so easy to exploit there and shit teleported like mad once you knew how the mob AI reacted to pathing. Was the same for other zones...once you learned pathing, in some cases you didn't even need to feign death, the dogshit pathing would sometimes cause npcs to split themselves. Or train. Karnors Castle if you trained the inner castle, then ran to the left and sat in the corner, the mobs would literally run back and forth from the castle entrance to the zone maybe 2-3 times before they even headed towards you. Made it extremely easy to stealth train people.
Stealth trains were the way to go...good way to clear out crowded zones to ensure you got more mobs. And if a group wanted more mobs, I'd give them. I remember early in EQ1, I was in upper guk and some griefer guild used ogres to block us inside a cave while they pulled shit. I was able to squeeze out and I just kept training non-stop mobs on them. At first they were like "thanks for the XP", but I just kept bringing waves and waves of mobs until their healers just couldn't get mana and their party died. Pretty sure the only survivor was a dude who cast invis and he gave the "gg" acknowledgement before porting out lol
I recall like maybe 1 or 2 guys who lost corpses/or almost lost corpses on Cazic Thule: One was under Nagafen's balls before anyone was able to kill Nag, and another died in Plane of Fear 2.0 when they really overtuned it after the original softball version and no one knew about the safe spot yet. Although even with them, I'm half convinced we ended up retrieving them before the timer expired.
I was the Kedge Master. The geometry was so easy to exploit there and shit teleported like mad once you knew how the mob AI reacted to pathing. Was the same for other zones...once you learned pathing, in some cases you didn't even need to feign death, the dogshit pathing would sometimes cause npcs to split themselves. Or train. Karnors Castle if you trained the inner castle, then ran to the left and sat in the corner, the mobs would literally run back and forth from the castle entrance to the zone maybe 2-3 times before they even headed towards you. Made it extremely easy to stealth train people.
Stealth trains were the way to go...good way to clear out crowded zones to ensure you got more mobs. And if a group wanted more mobs, I'd give them. I remember early in EQ1, I was in upper guk and some griefer guild used ogres to block us inside a cave while they pulled shit. I was able to squeeze out and I just kept training non-stop mobs on them. At first they were like "thanks for the XP", but I just kept bringing waves and waves of mobs until their healers just couldn't get mana and their party died. Pretty sure the only survivor was a dude who cast invis and he gave the "gg" acknowledgement before porting out lol
Tarisk
Pathetic Reaction Bot
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That ogre was VERY likely Xate when he was in doi before joining us in eod. He definitely did the ogre blocking multiple times, especially in sol b.
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Plane of Fear, guild wiped on entrance, and I went "link dead" for multiple hours. By the time I come back, entire guild has already left, corpse still in Fear, I was probably bound in Velious or something, melee character.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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First week of november, 1999. I'm minding my business, heading toward the usual HHP spot for the standard picklaw mine hunting pickup groups for the mid-20s.
And then there's those red-con creatures that I'd never seen in the middle of Kithicor, and I'm "uh? wtf?".
For an entire week, Kithicor was a death trap day and night. Unless you were level 50, forget about doing CR. The bard that ended up tracking the corpse and dragging it grabbed the entire coinage (/consent still let the target loot your corpse), but I was happy to get my body back.
I had a friend who "slipped" and fell down the well in Befallen. Unfortunately, a group of players attempted to help him go down to do CR. Thing is, /consent lets you drag the last corpse you made in the zone, but corpse tracking abilities only locate the first corpse you made. So, once he died a few times with a handful of autosplit coppers, there were half a dozen of corpses. Finding the one with the items on it was easy. But you needed to find the last one made to drag it back (because at that point, /consent did not let you loot), then find the next, and so on.
A Guide came and summoned seventeen corpses ("OMG").
And then there's those red-con creatures that I'd never seen in the middle of Kithicor, and I'm "uh? wtf?".
For an entire week, Kithicor was a death trap day and night. Unless you were level 50, forget about doing CR. The bard that ended up tracking the corpse and dragging it grabbed the entire coinage (/consent still let the target loot your corpse), but I was happy to get my body back.
I had a friend who "slipped" and fell down the well in Befallen. Unfortunately, a group of players attempted to help him go down to do CR. Thing is, /consent lets you drag the last corpse you made in the zone, but corpse tracking abilities only locate the first corpse you made. So, once he died a few times with a handful of autosplit coppers, there were half a dozen of corpses. Finding the one with the items on it was easy. But you needed to find the last one made to drag it back (because at that point, /consent did not let you loot), then find the next, and so on.
A Guide came and summoned seventeen corpses ("OMG").
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Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Abacab or w/e, the rogue that was in Dark Ascension on P99 back in the day - I had to organize a small party to go to hate to find someones corpse because he hid the guys corpse in the f'n rafters or some shit. I'm looking at the map on ShowEQ and I'm just sitting there thinking to myself - "how in the fk did he even get the corpse up there to begin with?" No idea why he did it other than the whole reason behind it just being that it was Abacab to begin with. Being an officer in an EQ guild is like having the clap.
Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Coffins (think they were around 200pp? I always logged onto our necros in retail and they had a full store of them already.)
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Cybsled
Avatar of War Slayer
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Ya the Lanys vs Firiona Vie event. The finale was in Kithicor where Innoruk shows up and all sorts of high level shit spawned. They also spawned them in the assling city. Zone completely crashed from all the lag and corpses. On our server it duped all the corpses, so the guides kicked everyone out and later awarded loot to people at High Hold Keep for the Firiona Vie side. I got poop loot and they later made it up to me at a future event where they turned me into a gnome monk.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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All those slightly unbalanced stuff is why most people remember vividly stuff from EQ, and very little from WoW. I do remember an Agnarr raid in BoT where we wiped down to two people, probably from some stupid shit. I managed to get combat rezed while our MT was kiting Agnarr around his circular room. And we dragged everyone's corpse in the stairs, to start to slowly rez while the warrior was running in circles, an irate and aggroed boss just behind him, and a single druid casting some regen from time to time, while we hid away from LOS to rez.
Then we killed him finally. And 15 years later, every single person in that raid remembers it. Because it could be done, and it was done.
When we rolled on WoW, the MT took "Agnarr" as its character name.
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