World of Warcraft: Current Year
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Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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Compared to brain dead world quests and having to heard a bunch of morons into doing the LFR tactics, sure.
Do you want me to say "braindead easy" for world quests, "retard easy" for heroic dungeons and "easy" for LFR (if everyone else is as competent as you)? Lighten up with the autism please.
My point is the same, if I want to do anything past "retard easy" in WoW then I need to start dealing with bullshit.
In FF14 I can get into Ultimate raids which IMO were on par with 2008 Sunwell for me in terms of difficulty without having to:
1) Schedule time to meet online people (eg guild responsibilities).
2) Suffer boring raid trash and corpse runs.
3) Teach idiots how to play.
4) Deal with toxic assholes and gear score shit and time limits.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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You can't just separate the content and its difficulty from everything surrounding it, you also have to include the systems around it and how people enter into the content, and with what expectations.
The thing is, LFR is not technically hard. But hell on earth is other people. With LFR you have an automated system and 24 other people, and you never know who you'll get. Meanwhile in PF you have 8 people, which automatically increases peer pressure and individual accountability. You can tell people in PF beforehand what to expect, while in LFR you are at the mercy of the automatic system Blizzard implemented.
The target audience for LFR in WoW seems to be people who don't want any commitment, the "it's just a game bro" types, the "why would I look up a website how to play my class" and "what's a dungeon journal?" mouth breathers. Thing is, PF has those types, too. But the system makes it so that you part ways after 90 minutes, no hard feelings. Especially no hard feelings.
Chris
Potato del Grande
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Number of people is important but the #1 FF14 difference is when you wipe you can restart within seconds.
So you are spending 100% of the time learning one fight, allowing slow people to get better and the overall difficulty to be harder.
In WoW you gotta do the corpse run, the run back, the respawns, the rebuff. It's pointless shit that isn't helping the morons learn.
I probably did less than 10 tries on 2008 Kil'Jaeden, a handful the week we reached him and a few more the second week when we got the kill because of WotLK prepatch changes. I do not have fond memories of Sunwell at all.
Ultimate Zodiark/Hydaelin/Endsinger probably 30 pulls each or something on launch AND IT WAS FUN AND TOOK HALF THE TIME. Then I had fun farming them.
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I havent played this shit in years but corpse runs are just a freature carryover from the days of EQ. And im sure many will disagree but there needs to be a negative in failing. Because if there isnt some negative the positive of actually winning feels less as an achievement. IDK just my opinion. I know for sure game like EQ would not have felt the way it did without the corpse run. Im more of the old school mmo player that thinks there needs to be a harsh death penalty as a feature. For one it kept the majority of scrubs away from the good content and items because they were in fear of the corpse run, and second, again, it made the winning more rewarding.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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Well in FF you have long multiphase fights, so havinng to repeat earlier phases is the negative.
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Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Man you are one insufferable fucking cunt. Can you stop turning every conversation in every fucking thread on the whole god damn forum into a THIS GAME SUX HURR DURR FFXIV GUD?
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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Just this thread and the Pantheon thread, because the comparison is important.
Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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No the fuck it isnt and no the fuck you arent limiting it to these two threads. You brought that shit up in Diablo Immortal thread too, of all fucking places. Hell, ESO TOO! jfc. Know how often I shit up the ffxiv thread? Fucking none cause it doesnt fucking matter what my thoughts are when I dont play or enjoy the game. You are fucking incessant with that shit and I wish you would open your fucking eyes to how god damn annoying you are.
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Rali
Trakanon Raider
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If the comparison is important then you've been doing Extremes in FFXIV and not Ultimates. For the record, I'm an ffxiv player (currently), but I don't feel the need to bang on about the game I enjoy, as if everyone else should enjoy the same thing..
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Its funny how some mmo players are. Its as if their game will DIE if they dont go and spread the gospel.
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Tarisk
Pathetic Reaction Bot
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This has always been a stupid issue, regardless if the gospel is spread on forums or in game public chats. People would much rather talk about how much they hate a game they don't play than let people play whatever the fuck they want for the reasons they like them individually and move on.
You only have to look at product reviews in general. People are usually too busy enjoying a good product to make a positive review.
These people need support groups and to get back in touch with reality, not general chat.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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What's ESO?
Oh yeah actually yes, sub Extreme for Ultimate in everything I said.
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Cybsled
Avatar of War Slayer
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The only thing people feared about corpse runs was the fucking TEDIUM of running back the umpteenth time. If people could find a sucker to actually do the run, they usually just did a /follow and went to tab out/do anything else.
Is it a punishment? Sure. But is it a smart punishment? No.
Why? Because it makes the player want to disengage from the game and therefore not play your game. You are injecting a purposely boring and meaningless activity as a means of artificially inflating content life that demands more of the player's time with no net value to the player. If you asked most players, most would rather make attempts and fail at a boss and be able to try again right away vs. fail then spend 10 minutes doing a fucking run of shame back to the boss before you try again.
If I have 2 hours to raid a night, I would rather those 2 hours be spent on actual progress attempts, not 30 minutes of actual fighting mixed with 1.5 hours of fucking run backs.
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Fucker
Log Wizard
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I DC'd during a POH run and ended up in a spot that required a full clear....that only one guild was capable of doing. I ended up getting my corpse, but there was a chance it wasn't going to happen.
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I don't know when you have played the last time, but this has been greatly improved in retail WoW. You respawn inside the instance, you have shortcuts, and you can reset some bosses and mass rezz people.
Also, rebuffing shouldn't take more than 30 seconds, and buffing is a "feel good dopamine release" part of the core WoW gameplay loop. People in WoW actually want things like that, e.g. "Mark of the Wild" from druids.