World of Warcraft: Current Year

Neranja

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,605
4,143
Secrets said:
WoW has stagnated instead of innovating, opting to take features from other games that have innovated in their stead that worked for those games but made them into bullet points that they can put on an expansion to sell a product instead of making a fun game.
Click to expand...
The whole genre has stagnated quite a bit. In fact so much that people are even yearning for the "good old days" where the games were complex, had a high learning curve and weren't full of "normies." Look at Pan'theon, that's the whole carrot on the stick for the donkeys following it.

Sure, there are innovations here and there, but by large nothing really outstandingly innovative comes to mind in the last 2 years. It's even worse, because modern MMORPG audiences expect the conveniences of a full-fledged WoW clone with ALL the features, especially the QoL features, up to the latest expansion. This led to players swarming a game like locusts (New World, Lost Ark) and instantly moving on when content runs out. This is clearly not a sustainable business model for games that take a lot of money to develop.

Ironically, there were some who believed that WoW grew the "MMORPG playerbase", and that it would lead to an influx of money so that interesting new MMORPG games could be made. It only lead to a long list of WoW clones dubbed "WoW killers", and the subsequent disappointments. There is a whole subset of WoW players that play WoW, and only WoW. They're not even gamers, they are "WoW players" exclusively.

The sad part is, that Blizzard now has to cater to both the top 1% world first raiders plus their toxic wannabe sycophants, and to the bottom "pet collecting housewives" who never even enter LFR or dungeons, except to solo farm old content. Everyone else, except the truly addicted, just flat out quit the game.

Secrets said:
WoW had its 'EQ Gates of Discord mass quit' moment with Shadowlands recently. They opted to grow the ire of their playerbase with terribly designed content and artificial timeblocks, and a new innovative idea that was more casual friendly that respected its players time took over in popularity - FF14.
Click to expand...
It wasn't even Gates of Discord alone, it was a string of questionable expansion decisions with LoY and LDoN leading up to GoD. The same happened with BfA + Shadowlands.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Cybsled

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
16,484
12,145
Neranja said:
It wasn't even Gates of Discord alone, it was a string of questionable expansion decisions with LoY and LDoN leading up to GoD. The same happened with BfA + Shadowlands.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. It's the sequence of middling or bad expansions that really drive the playerbase away in larger numbers. If Dragonflight ends up being dogshit, WoW numbers will crater and probably never recover.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Ukerric

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
7,934
9,587
Neranja said:
Sure, there are innovations here and there, but by large nothing really outstandingly innovative comes to mind in the last 2 years.
...
It wasn't even Gates of Discord alone, it was a string of questionable expansion decisions with LoY and LDoN leading up to GoD. The same happened with BfA + Shadowlands.
Click to expand...
Secret said that WoW has not innovated since Cataclysm, but I'd argue that Cataclysm didn't introduce any lasting mechanic. And it's not 2 years, it's worse.

When you think of the modern basic mechanics that make today's WoW, you think of:
- Using flying Mounts (introduced with Burning Crusade)
- Doing Dailies/World Quests (introduced with Burning Crusade, refined in final form with Legion)
- Opening LFG/LFR (introduced with Wrath of the Lich King)
- Playing with Mission tables (introduced with Warlords of Draenor)
- Being stuck with Scaling Zones everywhere (introduced with Legion)
- Running Mythic+ (introduced with Legion)
- Grinding Artifact Power (introduced with Legion)
- Picking the right Covenants (introduced with Shadowlands)

Legion was the last innovative expansion of the game. BfA did nothing, Shadowlands only introduced shit.
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,370
11,948
Legion should have set up WoW2. And a return to being a unsung or retired hero. Could have had the canonical player character on a farm giving a quest taking about the time he helped illidan take down Sargeras and being too old for this shit. Have a canonical horde and alliance one. Then use Nzoth to drive the first raids. Level curve back hard because you’re just a dude thrust into a needed action after years of peace from beating back the legion. The Void becomes the legion. Raids are 25 or 20. Maybe even consider 40. LFR replaced by a story mode raid that YOU must organize. It’s about 70% as hard as WOtLK naxx 10. No dungeon finder. LFR drops only blues with a couple epics off final boss like a Heroic Dungeon. Talent trees return. No borrowed power. Two new classes but perhaps some classes go away like DK and DH? I’d listen to keeping. Otherwise there’s zero lore reason unless maybe add a class questline early on?

Already better than BFA.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Chris

Chris

Potato del Grande
18,261
-296
Caeden said:
Legion should have set up WoW2. And a return to being a unsung or retired hero. Could have had the canonical player character on a farm giving a quest taking about the time he helped illidan take down Sargeras and being too old for this shit. Have a canonical horde and alliance one. Then use Nzoth to drive the first raids. Level curve back hard because you’re just a dude thrust into a needed action after years of peace from beating back the legion. The Void becomes the legion. Raids are 25 or 20. Maybe even consider 40. LFR replaced by a story mode raid that YOU must organize. It’s about 70% as hard as WOtLK naxx 10. No dungeon finder. LFR drops only blues with a couple epics off final boss like a Heroic Dungeon. Talent trees return. No borrowed power. Two new classes but perhaps some classes go away like DK and DH? I’d listen to keeping. Otherwise there’s zero lore reason unless maybe add a class questline early on?

Already better than BFA.
Click to expand...
Main thing I've learned from this thread is that random armchair designers are x1000 better than professional Blizzard devs.

They are clearly in a corporate bubble and don't see the problems with the game. The devs who play have tailored their pet system to what they enjoy (Ion, raids) and the rest are women and rainbows who play ultra casual and not at max level.

I bet anyone they interview who says the game has issues amd how they will fix it are labelled a malcontent and not hired.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
7,934
9,587
Chris said:
They are clearly in a corporate bubble and don't see the problems with the game.
Click to expand...
Oh, I think some at the top realize this. The problems is that, with an 18-year old game, there is no viable solution to fix it. Bandaid, yes. Fix? No, not truly.

The fact is, wholescale changes run the massive risk to alienate the current, still paying, playerbase, without the slightest guarantee that they will bring back the old players - let alone bring new ones. It's a well known trap: reform the game too late in its life cycle, and all you do is lose players.

WoW2 is the only way, but it is always a complicated process to do a "2" for a MMO. EQ2 failed and withered almost instantly. AC2 crashed and burned. UO2 was cancelled when they saw the disaster it was shaping to be. Can you think of a "2" that followed a moderately successful MMORPG? Lineage II, probably? So, for corporate, it's obvious that WoW2 is a risky proposition, and its marketing is going to be very, very hard.

Ultimately, saving the World of Warcraft universe requires a massive investment (far more than churning an expansion every 2 years) and a massive risk. And fixing WoW1 isn't doable. So, the right decision is to keep looking for a different type of MMO in a different IP, in the hope of attracting people who wouldn't play WoW.

(and haven't they just announced a new IP recently? I'm not tracking too much Blizzardy things, but I could swear I remember some kind of survival-style thingy)
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
48,284
283,519
World of Starcraft, along side Starcraft 3 that isn't pure lockdown aids so tournament play could be supported, Blizzard could facilitate an actual league and some big prize pools and televise that shit in Korea..

Blam I just made the company countless billions without any real effort, and all we really did was utilize one of the major IPs that put the fucking company on the map.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Chris

Chris

Potato del Grande
18,261
-296
Ukerric said:
WoW2 is the only way, but it is always a complicated process to do a "2" for a MMO. EQ2 failed and withered almost instantly. AC2 crashed and burned. UO2 was cancelled when they saw the disaster it was shaping to be. Can you think of a "2" that followed a moderately successful MMORPG? Lineage II, probably? So, for corporate, it's obvious that WoW2 is a risky proposition, and its marketing is going to be very, very hard.
Click to expand...
Final Fantasy managed it (though it took 2 attemps lol) and the first one is still running today. I didn't like FF11 but it must have been successful of it got multiple expansions and they made another one.

Really if you think about it, modern WoW is WoW2 complete with an older MMO running along side it.

So I think they could take some more risks with the modern game while also starting to make updates and maybe new content for classic.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
16,484
12,145
BoozeCube said:
World of Starcraft, along side Starcraft 3 that isn't pure lockdown aids so tournament play could be supported, Blizzard could facilitate an actual league and some big prize pools and televise that shit in Korea..
Click to expand...

The RTS ship has sailed for now. Even from an esports perspective, team games are the "in" thing. Solo "duels" like you saw in Starcraft don't bring the views like they used to.

I still think that if they did some looter-shooter quasi MMO with the Starcraft IP, that would be their best bet in terms of a possible successful game. Straddle the line between WoW and Overwatch
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,233
9,336
Cybsled said:
The RTS ship has sailed for now. Even from an esports perspective, team games are the "in" thing. Solo "duels" like you saw in Starcraft don't bring the views like they used to.

I still think that if they did some looter-shooter quasi MMO with the Starcraft IP, that would be their best bet in terms of a possible successful game. Straddle the line between WoW and Overwatch
Click to expand...
There hasnt been a RTS game that has been as popular as Starcraft was for... well.. since Starcraft. Im sure there are some notable ones, but Starcraft and WC3 brought the generic masses into the genre. I very seriously doubt that the Blizzard of today could pull all the same type of success, however. Though it does have all the tools to do so, and the reputation, even as tarnished as it is, is still there for a RTS. People still enjoy playing those types of games, and hell.. Ive seen streams of the old Total Annihilation and C&C games running. So the potential audience is there, young and old.
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,370
11,948
Ape destiny but better on StarCraft.

after thinking about a wow2. You have to commit to ending wow1. Roll into classic servers. Then you do away with factions in wow2 outside BGs maybe. Do class starting areas instead of race. Have certain cities hostile. UC hates humans for example but you can grind rep. So much better content and design you could do.

Dual spec at 40. Cap at 50. Cosmetics from WoW1 could translate based on a max level grind maybe. No flying mounts.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Cybsled

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
16,484
12,145
WoW2 is unlikely, unless you forced wow1 to shutdown. And dusting off old mmo mechanics isn’t a good idea. New World tried that and bled hundreds of thousands of players. All the “easy travel ruins the game” dopes who fail to realize the novelty of traveling every where slowly gets really old very quickly. Players were sick of that shit in EQ1 over 20+ years ago
 
xmod2

xmod2

<Gold Donor>
726
1,155
Chris said:
They even had Sylvanas apologise for genocide.
Click to expand...
I always though this was funny. "Wrongthink" is so bad, not even their villians can be sexist, racist, etc. "Oppression" is a fate worst than death.

The villian might slaughter your family, but he certainly would never dead name a transgender centaur.
 
  • 2Worf
  • 1Like
Reactions: 2 users
Neranja

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,605
4,143
Ukerric said:
And it's not 2 years, it's worse.
Click to expand...
The 2 years was for the genre as a whole. I can't really remember any big innovation in the MMO space except "battle passes" instead of subscriptions. And I use the term "innovation" really generously here.
 
Neranja

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,605
4,143
Daidraco said:
There hasnt been a RTS game that has been as popular as Starcraft was for... well.. since Starcraft. Im sure there are some notable ones, but Starcraft and WC3 brought the generic masses into the genre.
Click to expand...
This popped up in my Youtube recommendations:
 
  • 1Like
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 users
Daidraco

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,233
9,336
The intro to World of Starcraft - make it happen Universe.
(Just some dudes intro on youtube to Warhammer, but pretty fucking spectacular nonetheless.)
 
Rogosh

Rogosh

Lord Nagafen Raider
894
230
After watching this I feel like the game just has nothing left, this did not make me feel like a game I should be playing, let alone paying for. Here is hoping D4 is better.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user
Daidraco

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,233
9,336
Rogosh said:
After watching this I feel like the game just has nothing left, this did not make me feel like a game I should be playing, let alone paying for. Here is hoping D4 is better.
Click to expand...
What you're seeing is some WoW lead devs vapid attempt at creating story driven content similar to FFXIV's. The entire intro seems creatively hollow and forced - even though they have the freedom to pretty much do whatever they want. I imagine someone up top passed down the order to figure out why players left for FFXIV and what is keeping them there.

I dont believe this expansion will "save" WoW. Theyre going to have to knock it out of the park for several patches in a row this expansion to bring people in mass back. But the launch already looks lackluster and the damn expansion isnt even out yet. So...
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
44,693
93,408
Thats some bad voice acting.

Also they still cant find a pair of shoes for this twat after 3 expansions?

1664036375042.png
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user
You must log in or register to reply here.