World of Warcraft: Current Year

Asherah_sl said:

The main difficulty in a LFRs is the other players. With a competent raid LFRs are clearly trivial. However, a bad LFR can be pretty nightmarish. My personal favorite is players that queue as tanks to get a shorter queue but clearly never tanked before (and are illiterate or just refuse to communicate).

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Unfortunately in my case, bad LFRs seem to be the norm. It seems all the semi competent tanks are doing flex now, and we get left with all the retards for LFR. I can't tell you how many times I've seen tanks who just dont grasp the concept of having to trade off stacks of whatever debuff the boss is doing. The other tank will taunt, and the idiot tank will taunt the boss right back and keep doing it until they die.

JTheRuler_sl said:

I don't get it... Are you trying to make a min/max joke? Are you one of those "I play to have fun, bros," type of guys that doesn't do guild raiding?

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No was just making a statement that if someone could somehow integrate the MMO like experience into real life than people wouldn't get suckered into this. I was extremely hardcore and wasted a shit ton of time on the game, so now when I read posts like this where people feel "obligated" to run every single possible dungeon in an effort to better their character I think to myself how great it would be if somehow that energy could be channeled into real life. Can you imagine the accomplishments someone would make if they could somehow take the enthusiasm they have about WoW and channel it into being a better person? Unfortunately for some reason that type of motivation seems to be much easier to find in virtual worlds than in the real world.

If everything dropped the same loot then why would you do any of it more than once? You've just slashed the replay down to nothing. With zero progression between tiers, you gear up on the easy shit then do the difficult content once and then never go back. Why do you think +gooder loot even exists?

For fuck's sake, this forum is sounding like those "there should be solo raids for the best loot too!" from 1999 Everquest.

All leisure time is a sinful waste of productivity!

Kreugen_sl said:

If everything dropped the same loot then why would you do any of it more than once? You've just slashed the replay down to nothing. With zero progression between tiers, you gear up on the easy shit then do the difficult content once and then never go back. Why do you think +gooder loot even exists?

For fuck's sake, this forum is sounding like those "there should be solo raids for the best loot too!" from 1999 Everquest.

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I have nothing against the gear treadmill, I have everything against doing the exact same encounters 3-4 times per week because I need to have the gear from the slightly lower version of the encounter for the slightly higher version of the encounter. It's like XZibit is designing this shit.

Well, you don't NEED to do the lower tier, assuming you can clear a good amount of whatever tier you are on. It just helps you beat the game faster. Hell, in Asia the reset is only like 3 days by popular demand.

Trial of the Champion you could do 10/25 and normal/heroic for a total of four fuck you raids a week and you'd think they'd have learned from that. But now they are going right back to it with of all these separate lockouts. Didn't they say all 4 tiers have their own lockout next expansion?

I don't even know how it works right now - do you have 3 lockouts? Lfr, flex, and normal/heroic?

Kreugen_sl said:

For fuck's sake, this forum is sounding like those "there should be solo raids for the best loot too!" from 1999 Everquest.

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Ah, but who's got the MAX SERVERWIDE DPS?

If anybody is feeling generous, A fellow rerolleder and myself are RaFing and could use some run throughs. My other account I cancelled to start one with him and I can no longer run us through instances. lbf#1410 is my battletag

True I don't NEED to, but when certain key pieces are just stupid better from SoO on any difficulty than the normal difficulty gear that I have from the previous tier, it makes it hard to want to leave that on the table. Yeah sometimes RNG cooperates and I don't have to worry about running LFR for that particular piece, but say I blow all my rolls in normal mode and miss the free shot in flex, then I feel compelled to go for it LFR too.

Normal and Heroic are actually the only modes with lockouts. LFR and Flex just won't give you an auto loot after the first run, but you can still do it again and use rolls if you have them. So if I really wanted to punish myself for a single piece of gear, I could try to do the same boss 3 times that week in flex and blow a roll each time.

Kreugen_sl said:

If everything dropped the same loot then why would you do any of it more than once? You've just slashed the replay down to nothing. With zero progression between tiers, you gear up on the easy shit then do the difficult content once and then never go back. Why do you think +gooder loot even exists?

For fuck's sake, this forum is sounding like those "there should be solo raids for the best loot too!" from 1999 Everquest.

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Far from it: but asking for challenging 1 group dungeons is not the same thing as asking for BiS loot. Honestly: I can queue for dungeons and have some fun, in raids I get bored. I enjoyed 10 men raiding in LK and Cata, now now anymore, I prefer smaller group content. Loot? As long as it's functional to give me a parallel level of progression, I couldn't give a shit what ilvl it is. What I care about is 1 group content progression, not 8 dungeons at release and fuck all for 2 years after.
Raids can go DIAF for what I care. LFR is so fun I can't even outlast the queueing time nowadays.

Miele_sl said:

Far from it: but asking for challenging 1 group dungeons is not the same thing as asking for BiS loot. Honestly: I can queue for dungeons and have some fun, in raids I get bored. I enjoyed 10 men raiding in LK and Cata, now now anymore, I prefer smaller group content. Loot? As long as it's functional to give me a parallel level of progression, I couldn't give a shit what ilvl it is. What I care about is 1 group content progression, not 8 dungeons at release and fuck all for 2 years after.
Raids can go DIAF for what I care. LFR is so fun I can't even outlast the queueing time nowadays.

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So, basically, what you're saying is, if at xpack launch 5 man gear is 70% as powerful as launch raid gear, then when they release the new tier of raid you'd like them to release a new 5 man tier of x number of dungeons that has gear 70% as powerful as the new tier of raids?

Kreugen_sl said:

If everything dropped the same loot then why would you do any of it more than once? You've just slashed the replay down to nothing. With zero progression between tiers, you gear up on the easy shit then do the difficult content once and then never go back.

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You need to keep tiers as some mudflation is necessary to keep people playing. Although, with all difficulties dropping the same ilvl stuff you would not need as big of a gap between the tiers.

You could play on easy difficulty until you got good enough rolls on all your gear and then move to the highest difficulty. However, from my experience few raiders think that way. You usually have two types, the people that don't really want to do a higher difficulty and are content farming the current one until they get bored/run out of alts and the ones that want to push for the higher difficulties as soon as there's a reasonable chance of killing anything (even if it clearly would have been more efficient to gear up more first). I think the general idea with random loot stats is that you should be able to continue playing the same difficulty for much longer before being "done" if you want.

Kreugen_sl said:

Why do you think +gooder loot even exists?

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The same reason it existed in pen & paper RPGs. People like collecting shiny stuff. It keeps them playing.

Big W Powah!_sl said:

So, basically, what you're saying is, if at xpack launch 5 man gear is 70% as powerful as launch raid gear, then when they release the new tier of raid you'd like them to release a new 5 man tier of x number of dungeons that has gear 70% as powerful as the new tier of raids?

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Sort of. I don't care about the specific item level relative power, it can be 70%, 80%, whatever. It should allow to enter raids of the appropriate tier probably.
What they did in LK was fine, first with the argent tournament, then with the other 3 dungeons. I'd still change the scaling compared to what they did for a very specific reason and that is dungeon progression should be separated and non-intrusive on raid progression.

To be more clear: when the argent tournament 5men came out, it made Ulduar-10 gear obsolete by 7 item levels (219 vs 212 iirc). It should have been 7 item levels below that (205) instead of above, so a guild that is still doing Ulduar-10, can still find the motivation to finish it.
As I stated elsewhere, my idea has certainly a lot of flaws and it's not the pinnacle of originality, but I get paid to do my job and that's not designing games, so I don't spend much time thinking about these things.

I'd just be happy with some 1-group progression, that's it. Call it super flex system, scale it also from 10 downwards maybe.

My god that example of idiot tanks taunting right back rings too true. I've been kicked a few times because the other tank died and I was blamed even though he kept taunting it back. I just...I don't know. I want a fucking meteor to land on those people then.

Everquest when I quit had pretty much switched to giving group loot two tiers down and solo loot three tiers down (where in EQ tiers in 2003ish were no big jumps). Something similar is what I would like to see. Unfortunately I skipped 6 years of WoW so I dont know any expansion era had a similar setup. A typical content patch could add the raid dungeon with 1-3 wings, an outdoor raid boss with previous tier loot for the catch-up, and a new group dungeon + a refurbished old group dungeon (to save on dev time) at previous tier loot.

That's raidless progression for those that want that, a means to fill out slots / get off-spec gear on your own time while your guild learns the new raid for hardcores, and a way for not-so-hardcore guilds that also raid to group for some upgrades while dealing with the previous tier raid. Tbh I see nothing wrong with it and find it alot better then doing the same raid on 3-4 difficulties each week.

Roughly how WotLk was setup but with a lot of badge grinding.

I prefer 5 man content and don't appreciate that it is neglected as an expansion goes on. I'd rather they not have purple loot at all. They should have their own progression independent of how raids proceed. The token 5 mans introduced later on shouldn't be 100% purple loot, and there should be far more of them. All through LK I did 10/25 normal and heroic, but I still preferred 5 man, usually on my weakest alts b/c facerolling in epics means you can ignore all the mechanics which is boring.

I don't mind a badge system in 5 mans, but it shouldn't be used to buy raid loot. And each content patch being a gear reset where everyone goes up 30 iLevels is annoying as fuck. I go from having 10 launch 5 mans to 1. I've just lost content on a 10:1 scale compared to raiders that lose 15 bosses and gain 15 bosses. Mid-expac gear resets are lame regardless of the content you pursue.

Isn't Flex going to be the new LFR in the expansion anyway? I mean right now it is a bit silly. LFR -> Flex -> Normal -> Heroic. Four tiers of the same content.

I haven't played WoW since early Cata - do you actually have to go through all those tiers? I thought LFR / Flex, from reading about them, were just for people who couldn't do Normal raids. A progression path for the unguilded or whatever.

Warrick, they are keeping all four for some reason. lfr/normal/heroic are all flex, and then you have a new "mythic" mode that is 20 man only.

And no, you don't need lfr/flex if you're doing normal unless you want faster upgrades. But the loot is still an upgrade over normal mode from the previous tier, so it helps.

EDIT: Just spent an hour on Durumu for only 3 attempts. I was only there for the Dark Anus quest you get at the end of the sunreaver shit. First pull, tank wont' leave cat form (kept getting one shot by trash), nobody ran the beams around so the disintegration beam phase started with only one add killed, and then everyone dies to disintegration beam. Tard tank kicked.

30 minutes later a tank finally joins, second attempt, everyone dies to beam.

20 minutes later, ninja pull with 1 healer slot missing and 1 healer afk, everyone dies to beam.