World of Warcraft: Current Year

yimmien

Molten Core Raider
877
667
Question: what's the tldr on how to set up a butcher pug? I grasp the mechanics but is there a tried/true simple "do this, set these groups up, pull"? I've seen a few different subtle variations and don't really understand why.
It is infuriaring on heroic. I join a ton with strict ilvl and 20k dps requirements but every time you end up with 650+ people pulling 14-15k causing a 3% wipe. They get kicked and replaced with people who swear they can cut it but put out shit dps too. Neverending cycle.
 

Vorph

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
10,999
4,736
I need a raid leader for Mythic and then we could recruit. It's that simple and I stated this in /gu multiple times. We are a few people short of twenty capable mainly healers. I am not good enough so I am not going to raid lead it but I will recruit for it.

Someone has to step up though.
I think we should get our heroic group to kill M-Kargath for sure. I don't think we have anywhere near the average ilvl (and, more importantly, 670 weapons on everyone) required to kill M-Butcher. Maybe in a couple more weeks if we're lucky, but certainly not yet. Average from the dps needs to be 28k+, plus ~20k from each tank to beat him in time. The enrage is 5 minutes, but realistically four healers cannot keep up with a frenzy that lasts that long so it's more like 4m30s as absolute max and preferably more like 4m-4m15s if you want the fight to go smoothly.

My personal opinion would be to do everything possible to get a solid raid group geared and ready for Blackrock, with the intention of clearing normal and giving heroic a serious effort on week 1. Then worry about mythic BRF after we get geared with the loot in n/h that is actually itemized well for most specs.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Being a human DBM seems like somewhere around the 5th level of hell to me. Raid leaders who on occasion completely lose their shit are tolerated for a reason.
 

Lenaldo

Golden Knight of the Realm
324
108
I think the thing I hate most about raiding in Wow is having the raid leader call out abilities.... Its pretty fucking obvious when things are happening especially with tools like DBM.. Why do people ALSO need some poor guy to yell out on vent to also move out of the sparkly shit on the ground. Sad that with all the help blizzard and dbm provides.. .people still need someone to scream in their ear to move left.... Its also pretty obvious who relies on it since there is always a communication lag so you see half the raid move immediately and the other half waiting until they hear their raid leader tell them to
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
And waiting for someone else to move/say move is often too late anyway. The purpose of the marker is not to show you when to move, it's to show you where to stack afterwards.

There's all sorts of little things like that, especially on imp. Hey, fixated guy isn't moving out of pile - but the pile just stands there eating it. Sucks to not be a hunter, I guess.

To be fair though, DBM is information overload for most if you don't take the time to customize it. And knowing what warnings you need and don't need takes experience.
 

Arch

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,036
25
I think we should get our heroic group to kill M-Kargath for sure. I don't think we have anywhere near the average ilvl (and, more importantly, 670 weapons on everyone) required to kill M-Butcher. Maybe in a couple more weeks if we're lucky, but certainly not yet. Average from the dps needs to be 28k+, plus ~20k from each tank to beat him in time. The enrage is 5 minutes, but realistically four healers cannot keep up with a frenzy that lasts that long so it's more like 4m30s as absolute max and preferably more like 4m-4m15s if you want the fight to go smoothly.

My personal opinion would be to do everything possible to get a solid raid group geared and ready for Blackrock, with the intention of clearing normal and giving heroic a serious effort on week 1. Then worry about mythic BRF after we get geared with the loot in n/h that is actually itemized well for most specs.
I thought the enrage for MButcher was 4 minutes?

Traditional mythic progression is Kargath - Twins - Bracken/Tectus afaik. More gear levels and a consistent 20 still needs to happen.
 

Vorph

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
10,999
4,736
Ah, you're right, it is 4 minutes to berserk. Very few raids are capable of killing him that quickly though, and most seem to go 10-15 seconds into the enrage before he drops. That's where I got confused on the enrage timer.

Bottom line, he has 120.5M hp. If you give the raid 4m15s as an absolute max to kill him, that's a requirement of 472,500 raid dps. Tanks can do 18-20k. Healers are generally expected to DoT and do whatever bit of dps they can to help out a little, say ~25k dps from the four of them. That leaves an average of 29k per dps, more like 30k if you want to allow for the inevitable deaths and mass chaos that will happen once he enrages.

You're right though, we could skip around and Twins have a lower dps check with a fairly high mechanics check that could be doable at about the same gear level as Kargath.
 

Korrupt

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,832
1,228
Some of us already downed Mythic Kargath and got twins to I think 4% within 8 pulls. We just need some of those geared people back from AFK. Speaking of dodging the dodge factor on Mythic ramps up 20000% starting at Kargath which is kind of fun unless you were one of the healers hehe.

BTW Faydark was just online today in guild and said hes back from vacation, so that's one heroic geared tank. Just need to find another perm one and someone to lead now. Who knows also about Skrigg? He was gone but didn't say if it was just holidays? No reason we cant keep doing the heroic on Hyjal at least.
 

Zignor 3_sl

shitlord
180
1
So for some reason I downloaded this game using a free 10-day trial of WoD that was available on my old account. I haven't played WoW for over 5 years, and I logged in my level 75 Death Knight and pretty much had no fucking clue what to do. So many things look completely different to me (and I guess the old talent trees are gone?) Does anyone have any quick and dirty advice on any super important things to know these days, as well as where might be a good place to go and solo as I get used to the mechanics of the game again? Thanks.
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,907
4,483
So for some reason I downloaded this game using a free 10-day trial of WoD that was available on my old account. I haven't played WoW for over 5 years, and I logged in my level 75 Death Knight and pretty much had no fucking clue what to do. So many things look completely different to me (and I guess the old talent trees are gone?) Does anyone have any quick and dirty advice on any super important things to know these days, as well as where might be a good place to go and solo as I get used to the mechanics of the game again? Thanks.
Icy veins is a good place to go for gameplay advice, even while leveling. Dungeons aren't terrible experience for leveling but you'll probably want to do some questing for efficiency. 75 I think is ZulDrak.
 

Needless

Toe Sucker
9,169
3,268
god damn DKs are hilarious, hit 100 last night.. got full pvp gear + a glad piece today and i just gas pedal fools in BGs, i need to find a yolo 2s dps partner stat!
wish he was alliance so i can do double dps trinket
frown.png
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
This has been the most boring start to an expansion ever.
What do you mean? Pretty much everyone on my friends list that was playing or returned are still playing -- got a pretty varied group of friends, ranging from working through mythic to doing god knows what off in old content. I'm still entertained by pugging heroics and doing normal with my uber-casual guild.

I'm curious as to when 6.1 deploys -- I can probably handle another month of Highmaul but that's going to be pushing it.
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,907
4,483
What do you mean? Pretty much everyone on my friends list that was playing or returned are still playing -- got a pretty varied group of friends, ranging from working through mythic to doing god knows what off in old content. I'm still entertained by pugging heroics and doing normal with my uber-casual guild.

I'm curious as to when 6.1 deploys -- I can probably handle another month of Highmaul but that's going to be pushing it.
I haven't seen anyone from Blizzard say that BRF is tied to 6.1. I assumed that BRF would precede 6.1.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
I haven't seen anyone from Blizzard say that BRF is tied to 6.1. I assumed that BRF would precede 6.1.
Yea you're right, however, I suspect Bliz needs more than just BRF to maintain subs. I have friends who would really enjoy something like Timeless Isle. They don't really like to raid; having some place to cut their teeth on fighting hard solo mobs would really really extend their sub length. I am hoping, for their sake, that Tanaan Jungle has something like this. Besides -- watching other people fail gets tiring sometimes... I wouldn't mind a Timeless Isle either.
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,428
1,623
Nah hes pretty correct, it is something akin to boring. I only log on outside raids for Garrison, and if the 3-4 minutes it takes to send off my minions is considered highly entertaining then we're in for some serious "good" times.

Im still trying to get over not being able to reforge anymore and deal with not removing useless shit off my gear.
 

Mahes

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,707
5,377
Nah hes pretty correct, it is something akin to boring. I only log on outside raids for Garrison, and if the 3-4 minutes it takes to send off my minions is considered highly entertaining then we're in for some serious "good" times.

Im still trying to get over not being able to reforge anymore and deal with not removing useless shit off my gear.
I hate that reforge was removed. The choice you end up making is higher Ilevel or better secondary stats? The good news is that crafting kind of gets around that at a potentially hefty price. Blizzard of course realized that with their stupid new system that there would almost be no point in raiding if a player could create best in slot through crafting and so chose to limit it to 3 pieces.

The lack of freedom of choice in this expansion is odd. It is also why Ilevel is barely a gauge anymore to what a player might be capable of. A player can have a high Ilevel but if all their gear has haste on it, it can really hurt potential DPS as opposed to Multi-strike. If you want to know if a dps player is serious about their ability to raid, just see if they have 3 crafted pieces with one stat being Multi-strike. Obviously enchants are also important.
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
What I mean is they took away almost every productive activity, either removing it entirely or turned it into something you could only do in tiny amounts every x hours/days. Almost everything is centered around the garrison which is probably the most tedious thing that has ever been in WoW. After the first couple of weeks, there's simply nothing left to do if you aren't a PvPer or an achievement collector or some shit. Actual progression gameplay has been dumbed down to the level of mobile gaming, aside from raiding.

And even raiding is a bit dodgy. My guild (former guild; I quit WoW last week) is a fairly typical raiding guild of veteran players who have become adults, so not super hardcore but still serious about what they do. Our level is herioc raiding. No particular delusions about being mythic trailblazers, but good enough to perhaps do some mythic bosses after they're no longer competitive content. Basically, a slightly above average raid guild that doesn't think it's hot shit. And on the second raid reset, we cleared all of normal and all of heroic in one session. And now that's that. All of Highmaul, excluding mythic which we aren't in for, is cleared in three hours. We don't outgear it, we aren't mythic-level players outskilling th econtent.

But the real issue is that there just isn't really anything to log in for during the day. You organize your missions and work orders, and then there's nothing else to play for if you don't want to collect all the mounts or some equally arbitrary bullshit. I used to be able to continue doing dungeons for VP/JP. I used to be able to progress by working on reputations. I used to be able to work on professions, obtaining recipes and gathering materials to craft shit. I used to be able to do dailies (I hated the MoP version, but not because dailies are bad by definition). I used to have scenarios, useful JP rewards, farming tradeskill materials that are actually worth something instead of both useless due to crafting being wrecked and worthless because of the mine and herb garden.

In short, they've taken away almost every reason I had for playing the game and replaced it with an ill-conceived Skinner's Box experiment that only the most na?ve would regard as worthwhile gameplay.
 

Lenaldo

Golden Knight of the Realm
324
108
What I mean is they took away almost every productive activity, either removing it entirely or turned it into something you could only do in tiny amounts every x hours/days. Almost everything is centered around the garrison which is probably the most tedious thing that has ever been in WoW. After the first couple of weeks, there's simply nothing left to do if you aren't a PvPer or an achievement collector or some shit. Actual progression gameplay has been dumbed down to the level of mobile gaming, aside from raiding.

And even raiding is a bit dodgy. My guild (former guild; I quit WoW last week) is a fairly typical raiding guild of veteran players who have become adults, so not super hardcore but still serious about what they do. Our level is herioc raiding. No particular delusions about being mythic trailblazers, but good enough to perhaps do some mythic bosses after they're no longer competitive content. Basically, a slightly above average raid guild that doesn't think it's hot shit. And on the second raid reset, we cleared all of normal and all of heroic in one session. And now that's that. All of Highmaul, excluding mythic which we aren't in for, is cleared in three hours. We don't outgear it, we aren't mythic-level players outskilling th econtent.

But the real issue is that there just isn't really anything to log in for during the day. You organize your missions and work orders, and then there's nothing else to play for if you don't want to collect all the mounts or some equally arbitrary bullshit. I used to be able to continue doing dungeons for VP/JP. I used to be able to progress by working on reputations. I used to be able to work on professions, obtaining recipes and gathering materials to craft shit. I used to be able to do dailies (I hated the MoP version, but not because dailies are bad by definition). I used to have scenarios, useful JP rewards, farming tradeskill materials that are actually worth something instead of both useless due to crafting being wrecked and worthless because of the mine and herb garden.

In short, they've taken away almost every reason I had for playing the game and replaced it with an ill-conceived Skinner's Box experiment that only the most na?ve would regard as worthwhile gameplay.
Have you tried challenge modes? The rewards need to be increased (a lot)... but they are fun as hell in my opinion.