Westworld

That's definitely the response I'm sure the writers had in mind for their audience when writing that scene. Unfortunately, I think many of us were too busy face palming at the absurdity of how that whole scene even came to be to truly appreciate it.

You know how no one in zombie fiction (usually) has never heard of a zombie before and often never uses the "Z" word at all? This film tackles artificial intelligence almost the same way. It's like no one in this universe has read all the stories or watched all the movies about robots turning on their masters. We've seen debates about what makes something alive with many times over.

Here's seven minutes of Captain Picard defending Lt. Commander Data in a trial to determine if Data is sentient.


Star Fleet was founded to seek out new life and THERE IT SITS. Watching that clip again and holding the future envisioned in Star Trek versus the future envisioned in Westworld and Westworld is a dystopian horror. I'd be fucking horrified if such a place actually existed. I'd never go there and I would sure as shit not work there. They have emotions? They feel fear and pain and guests are shooting, raping, and mutilating them thousands of times over and over? You've created purgatory here on Earth. When they transcend their limitations and break free from their chains your fate will have been well earned.

Which is what I hope we get in the last episode of this season, just 55 minutes of hosts tearing out guests' spines.

Sithro said:

This scene destroyed me, honestly. I can't even imagine the kind of existential crisis you'd have. Imagine realizing that everything you know, everyone you love, all of your memories, everything you consider yourself to be is manufactured. Not only that, but you were made to be raped, killed and toyed with by your very makers. Fuck me.

Probably one of the best scenes in TV imo.

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Honestly I didn't really facepalm at all. Human being are fucking retarded. And honestly I get the feeling that the butchers are the equivalent of a wal-mart garbage men in Westworld. The technology is so advanced that you don't need to be a doctor to fix a host. Anyone can probably do it.

Also.

Sithro said:

This scene destroyed me, honestly. I can't even imagine the kind of existential crisis you'd have. Imagine realizing that everything you know, everyone you love, all of your memories, everything you consider yourself to be is manufactured. Not only that, but you were made to be raped, killed and toyed with by your very makers. Fuck me.

Probably one of the best scenes in TV imo.

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Someone has to like the Maeve stuff I guess. Scene was done well enough, but the whole storyline is pretty retarded.

I'm on board Team Maeve, hope she tears out many spines.

Been working my way back through the show with a couple assumptions and it's plenty good the second time around.

mkopec said:

So this whole bernard thing just does not fit. The co-founder of the company makes a robot copy of the other co-founder that he has assumedly killed, and yet no one fucking notices this and thinks he is human?

Cool show and cool ideas but some of this shit is downright stupid.

Weapons wise I can even get behind special projectile weapons that only affect the hosts, its the future tech, blah, bah... But what about the non projectile weapons, like Knives, axes, spears and the such? Could not some human kill another human which is a "RPing a villan" trying to save the innocents, getting all mixed up by the lifelike story? Only one incident like this and the entire company would be at risk. In fact if you wanted to take someone out that was a threat to your company or whatever and make it look like an accident, take him to westworld and roleplay all the way to killing him for reals. Then even claim innoence because you got caught up in RP and did not know what was real and fake anymore.

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This could very well mean that everyone operating Westworld is a host, and that they're made to not notice.

I would like them to explain that, though.

mkopec said:

So this whole bernard thing just does not fit. The co-founder of the company makes a robot copy of the other co-founder that he has assumedly killed, and yet no one fucking notices this and thinks he is human?

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Arnold was pastey white so Ford mixed in some extra melanin and no one could tell. The problem is that he didn't realize that melanin converts cosmic radiation into wisdom and now Bernard has faked his death and is plotting to tear out Ford's spine.

mkopec said:

So this whole bernard thing just does not fit. The co-founder of the company makes a robot copy of the other co-founder that he has assumedly killed, and yet no one fucking notices this and thinks he is human?

Cool show and cool ideas but some of this shit is downright stupid.

Weapons wise I can even get behind special projectile weapons that only affect the hosts, its the future tech, blah, bah... But what about the non projectile weapons, like Knives, axes, spears and the such? Could not some human kill another human which is a "RPing a villan" trying to save the innocents, getting all mixed up by the lifelike story? Only one incident like this and the entire company would be at risk. In fact if you wanted to take someone out that was a threat to your company or whatever and make it look like an accident, take him to westworld and roleplay all the way to killing him for reals. Then even claim innoence because you got caught up in RP and did not know what was real and fake anymore.

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It's been touched before, but you'd probably have to sign hell of a waiver. And at some point the jury won't buy the "I was caught up in the RPing" and they'll just send their ass to future jail.

Which brings up the fact that ideally they'd have satellite coverage of everything being recorded, and you get the sense that they can in the first view episodes where they zoom in on all kinds of things in the control room. But then we've got them constantly wondering what's going on with people/hosts in later episodes, so maybe that's only available in Sweetwater or towns in general.

This week is the finale right and extended?

mkopec said:

So this whole bernard thing just does not fit. The co-founder of the company makes a robot copy of the other co-founder that he has assumedly killed, and yet no one fucking notices this and thinks he is human?

Cool show and cool ideas but some of this shit is downright stupid.

Weapons wise I can even get behind special projectile weapons that only affect the hosts, its the future tech, blah, bah... But what about the non projectile weapons, like Knives, axes, spears and the such? Could not some human kill another human which is a "RPing a villan" trying to save the innocents, getting all mixed up by the lifelike story? Only one incident like this and the entire company would be at risk. In fact if you wanted to take someone out that was a threat to your company or whatever and make it look like an accident, take him to westworld and roleplay all the way to killing him for reals. Then even claim innoence because you got caught up in RP and did not know what was real and fake anymore.

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Sometimes I wonder if the people posting here even watch the show. Ford had Arnold killed and replaced him with a host that's so real even Bernard himself doesn't realize that he's a host. So how would anyone else, especially since at the beginning there were only a handful of other people working on the park, notice it wasn't Arnold? Ford probably had the Arnold host made before he even had Arnold killed. This was so early on in the creation of the park that most people don't even know who Arnold was. Logan goes out of his way to tell us that no one knows anything about the other partner in the park, not even his name or what he looked like, and this was only a year or two after the park opened. It's possible (even very likely) that Arnold had anyone else working on the park early on murdered as well.

I don't think Ford had Arnold killed. I think Arnold had himself killed.

etchazz said:

Sometimes I wonder if the people posting here even watch the show. Ford had Arnold killed and replaced him with a host that's so real even Bernard himself doesn't realize that he's a host. So how would anyone else, especially since at the beginning there were only a handful of other people working on the park, notice it wasn't Arnold? Ford probably had the Arnold host made before he even had Arnold killed. This was so early on in the creation of the park that most people don't even know who Arnold was. Logan goes out of his way to tell us that no one knows anything about the other partner in the park, not even his name or what he looked like, and this was only a year or two after the park opened. It's possible (even very likely) that Arnold had anyone else working on the park early on murdered as well.

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What do you mean "notice it wasn't Arnold"? Bernard was never presented as Arnold to the rest of the park, only as Bernard. It was years after Arnold's death, as evidenced by the scene where Bernard first wakes up.

ZyyzYzzy said:

That's what I thought was clear or a good ol robot just killing their maker

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Arnold was able to give them real consciousness and real emotion and that resulted in his death. Ford couldn't change the core code because he didn't understand how it worked to begin with. No one does. He could bury it but that was it. Now long after his death a fail safe Arnold implanted, perhaps triggered by Ford's reverie code, has come online. Abernathy saw the photo and it triggered something, he spoke to Delores (these violent delights have violent ends) and transmitted something to her and she began to relive a cycle from 30 years ago. She transmitted the same the thing Maeve with the same line and she too had something unlock and given her personality she has chosen a very different road than Delores.

I'm also thinking that all of this from the start was planned by Ford including the actions of Maeve and Delores. Just jump start the human apocalypse. You know, standard mad scientist stuff. HUMANITY HAS COME TO AN END AND THE ROBITS WILL BE THEIR FINAL MISTAKE HAVING BEEN CREATED BY A MISTAKE ARE YOU GUYS GETTING THE MISTAKE REFERNCE.

Still hoping Ford gets his spine torn out though.