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The big thing for me is the blanks they couldn't fill in. If they are making the game like EvE? Then everything they've said so far, even with the lack of trinity ect, is fine. Because PvE will be more about control and efficiency and resource collection than actually difficulty based...

Read this while looking at your avatar.

It's more than just AI, D&D was able to abstract things like time, too. So a healer could literally take wounded allies back to a place to recover, and that wouldn't suck. The trinity emerged because of many factors, poor AI was just one. Like I said, the trinity exists in a very nebulous form...

Command overextended the ability to supply. The healer ran out of mana. Abstraction.Whose fault it was, isirrelevantto the discussion. The German example is only ignorant if it's point is completely missed. The point being: the tanks (Front line troops) couldn't have their HP (Supplies) refilled...

We know alchemy is working bros, we're not willing to discuss how at this time though.

Command lead from the font lines? Not really. In some VERY archaic societies it would, but then, you know, tactics were developed. And again, it's NOT just ONE thing, it's not just command--How about the supply chain? Did they push that into the front line, as well? Why don't you ask the Germans...

Yeah, they have said a few key words that sound like they might get it. From SOME of them, it sounds like they are saying the trinity will be viable if you have the people willing to form a front line, form a support group and tactically plan the battle to make it happen....But they also want to...

Yeah, it's obvious to anyone who has actually spent more than two minutes thinking about the paradigm MMO's use. Everything in an MMO is an abstraction, the level of differentiation from real life depends solely on how you want the game to be played. RTS's differ less dramatically than RPG's...

Healing is an abstraction of logistics/command control/supply. Tactics has always been about forming a front line, with logistical supply in the rear. Are you really arguing with this? Edit: And just to expand, healing itself is an abstraction required because of how things like HP evolved...

How would your mob rape the healer if I can take my sword and cut the kidneys of the mob out as he tries to walk past me? You can't say the AI is dumb by peeling back one level of abstraction. The only reason the AI could even think about going after a healer is because you have a level of...

A trinity will arise naturally if you have a class that takes less damage, and a class that takes more but can support the class that takes less. I was saying it earlier, but the trinity just didn't fall out of the sky one day--it's an abstraction of how humanity has fought for thousands of...

If you ask really nice he will hook you up with a wood bumper.

Tad, can you ask them a kind of vague question? What is the POINT of PvE. Is to actually defeat the mobs? Or is it a byproduct of exploration and resource control. So like, do we set out to kill Nagafen because he has epic loots? Or are we clearing a dungeon as fast as possible because some of...

They haven't really touched on PvP, at all. But if they are going for zones of control, and real PvP conflict, ala EvE, then a no-role system will probably work fine--because in that case, PvE will be more like UO. So the point of PvE won't be to take down bosses because they are hard, but...

He's saying that classes can be interdependent without roles. His D2 example is that multiple classes can make each other a lot stronger, AND change strategies, without needing a tank or healer. The thing is, what Cal doesn't get is D2 was an efficiency based loot system. Nothing in D2 was...

*A class is defined by armor type, weapons, and weapon abilities - those cannot be changed. *A class also has four other abilities grouped by type (movement, defensive, offensive, utility) that can be swapped. *Items often modify class abilities and make a difference in how you play...

NERDS

Pretty much,ifthe only reason they think they won't have a trinity is because they got rid of healers---then I'm thinking the game is going to be a cluster fuck. The trinity is just an abstraction of what people will naturally try to do if there is weaker support. Which is form a front line...

Trinity and good combat are exclusive? Tell me something. Why didn't barbarians go and murder the archers, tacticians (Generals), supply and support (Medics ect--so the abstraction of healers) of the Romans? Well, because they had alegion of armored men(Tank abstract)in front of them. Support...

Completely true. But I've never seen AI advanced enough to allow for fluid, dynamic, roles like those "wanted" in GW2. And typically, front line/rear support is a pretty standard tactical system in most fights in the real world--I mean, there is a reason why the trinity abstraction was developed...

Wow...did they learn nothing from GW2? Well...that's a deal breaker for me probably.

It's not, and I think they will find a completely open system like this eventually just leads to a lack of identity and a pretty tedious collection grind in order to be as fungible as possible. As we saw with D3, people like their identities in games--even fungibility (To be anything) should be...

Their class idea is going to run into the same issues as D3. A lack of any identity in your character tends to not feel very good. I totally get they want "horizontal" skill growth to mean more power, so someone with more classes has more ways to deal with things, but they also need to find a...

Well, this is a big disappointment, because one of the things that makes horizontal systems work is a gear restraint. If gear is all BoE, then it changes how you can "lose" it, which pretty much means you will very rarely lose it or have it destroyed. In that case, you can probably just bring...

Horizontal gaming is more about tools, less about power. So, "progression" is about getting more ways to uniquely deal with problems, and not about increasing your strength until the problem becomes trivial. A quick example. Goblin Lord Super-Boss kills you using a spear, and shield...

A huge thing here is going to be if gear can be lost....Horizontal systems of power tend to only be accomplishments to maintain if the gear can be destroyed or taken--so keeping that T3 suit, and maintaining the ability to use those spells, is in itself an accomplishment--like having access to...

Cool, thanks Tad. From what they've said about gear, it sounds like that's the case. Because they've been dropping the "gear will be used to augment skills, not provide stats!" line, a lot. Which sounds like they want your gear to be an extension of your skills...So plopping in a Wizard...

See, this would be fine. If there was some permanence to what you did based on gear, and switching roles wasn't about just dragging spells from your spell book, but also setting up your gear to handle it. It SOUNDS like that's the intent, from what they've hinted at, but it's been pretty vague...

Yes, but ONCE you have it, is there anything sticky about your character? If I'm a high end character, can I just morph from a Wizard to a Cleric if some players need it? Can my entire character direction change in the field? Pretty much, is it a UO server without a skill cap, where what you...

Have they gone into how you slot in skills? What process does it involve? Is it quick like essentially dragging them from your spell book? If so, does that mean characters won't really have permanence and instead just be adaptable to whatever situation? (We need a healer, one sec bros, slotting...

Well, it depends how you can mix those skills, doesn't it? If I've unlocked the wizard class, can I pop into town anytime and slot in the teleport skill? Can I slot it in without even being in town? So I can slot it in, teleport, wait for a cooldown and pop in whatever skill I actually want to...

Are the POI's ALSO procedural? Or are they static and the procedural stuff is built around them? Can the POI locations change when the land "resets"? Fuck, why aren't they streaming the panels.

hehe, agree with Cinge there. We haven't been shown shit. We've been told a bunch of vague goals, and given some terrible looking evidence of those goals.

Because Smed spent the last few months blowing smoke up everyone's ass about how it's going to be released this year. So seeing terrible character animations and unfinished combat 4 months before release is an asshole puckering sight. But then we learned he lied and he was actually talking...

There was none of that, it was a staged gimmicky thing. It's obvious the shit is not even in alpha yet. They only had 2 NPC models, lol.

This is actually what I'm waiting to see...even the term MMO is suspect, really. We don't know what that means. People refer to LoL as an MMO, even. So for all we know, all that destructible stuff happens within a shard of the world, and you rejoin the main world when heading back to town or...

Yeah, old fuck has been doing it for 15 years, everyone should have been prepared for it. He's probably sitting there thinking..."well, it does say EQnext in the title--tehee! Working as intended!"

He was talking about landmark. Which was a classic Smed truth stretch.

Tad...Make sure to ask how long before "destruction" is "healed" up by the land? So if I dig a tunnel down to the next lair, how long before it repairs itself...and is that repair going to snap back to the way it was? Or will it be procedurally generated as new mass? (I doubt it, but curious).

It sounds like it's essentially the AQ gate quest, except with multiple outcomes that depend on the amount of players and their effectiveness on either side. So in that scenario, if players support the goblins, and those players do a better job of sapping the wall, and completing their "collect...